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Cal State will no longer require math and English placement exams

latimes.com

251–260 of 278 posts

Re: Cal State will no longer require math and English placement exams

#251

You might be asking how one fails the state testing (then gets put in remedial class) but gets accepted to college (particularly a CA state one). Let me tell you a funny yet embarrassing story. I went to GaTech and I failed the English Regents test not once but twice! Now at first I thought it was my fault. I didn't really take the test seriously. However I was seriously embarrassed. After all this was Georgia not Ca…

My brother and parents were quite upset one year when he failed his 6th grade standardized test. 20% -- so low! They were talking about his study habits etc etc and I asked to see the results. Perfect 20% in each topic. How many choices for answers? 5. Hm. Can I see your form? You filled in the B bubble for "test form" and it was an A form.

Re: Cal State will no longer require math and English placement exams

#252
post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's some similarities. The old new math was all about learning abstractions early. The new new math is all about approaching math problems from many different angles to build a sense of when you'd use certain techniques and why they work. The common thread is a lack of emphasis on rote application of algorithms without explanation of how they work. Arguably, that's less important in the era of pocket calculators…

I dislike the lack of emphasis on rote memorization. IMO the correct approach should be 1) understand the concepts, then 2) practice until such concept becomes muscle memory, which will serve as the foundation for the next level. This is the same approach that sports/martial art/artisans use (deliberate practice, etc). The concepts are tools, and being able to use those tools intuitively and instinctively is key to a…

Consider the standard long division algorithm. Would you rather students become fast and accurate in applying it or would you rather students have the skills to understand what's going on and derive it for themselves? Drilling will certainly help with the former, but it crowds out time that could be spent exploring concepts. There's a balance to be struck.

Re: Cal State will no longer require math and English placement exams

#253
post #122

If you live on the West Coast and want your children to be able to read Hacker News, then you better send them to a private school.

More like its a quick way to get your kids sick with some nasty ass diseases, West Coast private schools are a petri dish with a ton of unvaccinated kids. Considering the Catholic Church runs most of these schools, the local diocese need to crack down and not endanger their student body with these nasty ass, bug chasing parents & their unvaccinated children! https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/09/wealthy-…

Vaccinations generally work, so as long as your kids are vaccinated, I fail to see how sending them to a private school will endanger them in any way...

Re: Cal State will no longer require math and English placement exams

#254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's elitism when you realize being born into the wrong school district and/or with the wrong parents may increase your chances of not being able to acquire those basic skills.

What we should really do is drop all grading systems and test scores entirely. They are flat out bad for people's self esteem. So long as people show up to class sometimes they should get a special badge they can put on that says "I went to college!"

I honestly cannot tell if this comment is sarcastic. There are legitimate arguments for this approach as kids identify early with "bad at math" for example, and that sticks with them.

Re: Cal State will no longer require math and English placement exams

#255
post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don't have textbooks, we have worksheets. Worksheets with little or no explanation as to the expectations of how to complete the work. That part was covered in class. I was not in class, I was at work. My children don't always understand the alternative techniques and cannot explain them to me. I cannot assist my children in learning alternative techniques I did not learn. Since we're generalizing, I think that mo…

The information is readily available for free to anyone who bothers to do a little research. Your time would be better spent learning instead of complaining.

I do the research online to figure out how to explain it. The point is I shouldn't have to do that. I'm only guessing at explaining things with the, hopefully, proper context as to how the teacher expects it to be versus what I found on the internet.

But I'm happy everything works out so easily for you. I could only hope that one day I'll be as smart as you seem to be.

Re: Cal State will no longer require math and English placement exams

#256
post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you give examples of societies that have embraced meritocracy? I can't think of any off the top of my head.

I would take a look at Fukuyama's "Origins of Political Order" and "Political Order and Political Decay". The first hints of meritocracy were in China during the Qin and Han dynasties, where exams where used to provide positions in bureaucracy to those not of noble birth. Prussia was really the first example of this in the west, where in 1770 all civil servants were required to pass a written exam.

I think the East India company were the first western group to copy the Qin exam based merit system [1].

1. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_India_Company

Re: Cal State will no longer require math and English placement exams

#257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately not. The reason meritocracy has “won” over the last 200 years is those societies that didn’t embrace it lost the wars that were fought.

Nonsense. The Chinese have had a meritocratic civil service for ~1500 years. They spent the early 19th century being thrashed by the British who only established an exam based civil service in 1850s. The Napoleonic French were a lot more meritocratic in their military and civilian career structure than the British who beat them on the seas.

The Chinese were not thrashed by the British in the early 19th C. - they were thrashed by the East India Company who had embraced meritocracy long before then (they actually copied the Chinese system).

Napoleon is a classic example of the success of meritocracy - it took the combined effort of the whole European nobility to defeat France and even then it was a close run thing.

Re: Cal State will no longer require math and English placement exams

#258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's surprising because the per capita expenditure on education is higher in the US than pretty much everywhere else[1]. Assuming everything else is approximately equal (there are enough teachers, teachers havw proper access to materials, the intelligence of children is the same, etc) it implies that either spending more on education has a negative impact or that the US is using the wrong teaching methods. [1] http:/…

Or... it could imply that in the US the perception is your future depends less on whether you can conquer advanced math, so students aren't as motivated to learn. I would argue that perception is a bit wrongheaded, but perceptions are what people use to make decisions.

I grew up poor. A common sentiment among my peers about math was "I will never use this". No teacher ever corrected this sentiment. Teachers and parents alike seemed to accept that the kids were not able to succeed academically. There was no malicious intent, just acceptance. The kids were actors in a social environment in which trying hard in academics was a source of stigma rather than status.

The overwhelming majority of kids (including me) received poor educations. I learned this in college when I was shocked by the difficulty of the courses. The majority of the kids passed high school because the standards were lowered.

I think lowering the standards in college is failing to target the source of the problem. I believe the further you get from hard skills (e.g., math or cs) the more relevant your soft skills become (e.g., cultural fit)[0]. The fact of the matter is that poor people have a distinct culture and it involves many elements that are not normative. I don't know if it is objectively more difficult to assimilate culturally or learn hard skills. On the other hand, I found it so difficult to assimilate to my PhD program in a social science that I didn't finish. I found programming to be much easier, albeit still a difficult mid-career change, than assimilating culturally. If it is the case that acquiring hard skills offers better opportunities for the poor to rise, then that is exactly what teachers and parents should be telling their kids. That is exactly what those with "sympathy for the poor" should be funding.

[0]Brendan Eich & the Googler who wrote about diversity are counter examples. I can (but I won't) argue the case they have better chances financially due to their hard skills compared to a person in a occupation lacking said skills.

Re: Cal State will no longer require math and English placement exams

#259
post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So White people are all one race, now? Germans and Slavs and Scandinavians and Italians are all the same? When did that happen?

Yes, it's Caucasian. There is a difference between race and country of origin. I mean wow.

Huh. Hasn't always been. Look up the history of race sometime.

Race is politics and not biology. I mean wow.

Re: Cal State will no longer require math and English placement exams

#260
post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny, my kids' math teachers have all stated to me, in public not whispers, they hate the "new math" and it is inhibiting them from teaching math correctly. Since I wasn't educated in the "new math" as a kid I have difficulties helping my children with their homework, which the teachers also admitted to being a problem. Typically I just show them how to solve the problem the way I learned and they pick it up much qu…

The Common Core math curriculum is actually quite good and based on solid academic research on how to best teach those concepts to the majority of kids. Most of the parents complaining about it just haven't taken the time to read through their children's textbooks and understand the alternative techniques.

Hatred of Common Core is political in nature, and therefore not amenable to reasoned discussion.

If you hate something on political grounds, you're not going to be amenable to finding out what it actually is, for example.

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