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Airbnb is banning people trying to attend a white supremacist rally

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Re: Airbnb is banning people trying to attend a white supremacist rally

#51

Post by flukus »

salvar wrote: post #43
flukus wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No person-to-person platform can reach scale and be apolitical. Companies that are too political can't scale at all, they put to many people off. Most overtly political business like feminist cafe's or LGBT bookshops die pretty quickly. In the tech world, if I could go back half a decade and know how political github would become I and many other people would have never signed up. > The idea that companies are apol…

When I stay at an Airbnb I'd like to know that my host isn't a KKK member. I'm sure most of Airbnb's customer's feel this way. I'd say that Airbnb's services are much more personal (in a person-to-person way) than coffee, movies or phones.

> When I stay at an Airbnb I'd like to know that my host isn't a KKK member. I'm sure most of Airbnb's customer's feel this way.

I've got some bad news then: you don't know that. Unless the host has swastikas on their forehead or explicit tells people then neither Airbnb or it's customers know that. Every single time you book there is a chance you'll be staying in the home of a KKK member.

But as shown by recent hot topics, most people prefer to be blissfully unaware.

Re: Airbnb is banning people trying to attend a white supremacist rally

#52

Post by averagewall »

Frondo wrote: post #32
nodesocket wrote: post #9

The epidemic problem with bay area companies mixing their leftist politics and business is very disconcerting. They are alienating the majority population of the country, and are acting in the same manner as groups they claim to loathe. It is pure hypocrisy. Bay area companies enjoy diversity and inclusion, as long as it fits within their narrative.

Shouldn't this be a situation where the market decides, then? AirBNB, developed in leftist SF: No white supremacists on our system. AryanBNB, developed in northern Idaho: White supremacists welcome! If people are really that turned off by AirBNB banning white supremacists, they'd flock to AryanBNB, wouldn't they? For my part, I just don't think this slope is that slippery. I'd happily prohibit white supremacists from…

That reason isn't consistent with popular ideology. If it was valid, you could also make the same argument for AirBNB banning gays and say "well, gays can make their own GayBNB if they want. Let the market decide!" No. That wouldn't be fair for gays to be sidelined to the necessarily inferior minority service. Most customers won't use the GayBNB as a political gesture. Just as most Uber users didn't really switch to Lyft when they were angry at Uber because, well, they kind of liked the cheap and available rides.

Re: Airbnb is banning people trying to attend a white supremacist rally

#53

Post by salvar »

flukus wrote: post #51
salvar wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I stay at an Airbnb I'd like to know that my host isn't a KKK member. I'm sure most of Airbnb's customer's feel this way. I'd say that Airbnb's services are much more personal (in a person-to-person way) than coffee, movies or phones.

> When I stay at an Airbnb I'd like to know that my host isn't a KKK member. I'm sure most of Airbnb's customer's feel this way. I've got some bad news then: you don't know that. Unless the host has swastikas on their forehead or explicit tells people then neither Airbnb or it's customers know that. Every single time you book there is a chance you'll be staying in the home of a KKK member. But as shown by recent hot…

> I've got some bad news then: you don't know that.

Thanks for the snark, it really helps the discussion. Let me rephrase to include some nuance:

When I stay at an Airbnb I'd like to think that the company has some interest in the host not being an openly card-carrying KKK member, and would take reasonable action to remove those hosts from their services, as they seem to have done in this instance. I realise that this does not mean there is no chance that I'll be staying in the home of a KKK member, but thanks for the tip.

Re: Airbnb is banning people trying to attend a white supremacist rally

#54

Post by abawany »

celdon25 wrote: post #39
abawany wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You would be surprised how many people do not understand that the First Amendment applies to the government. A former manager, a seemingly rational person, once started to rant about pro-liberal censorship on Twitter (during the time that Yiannopoulos person was banned) and how that is a violation of his First Amendment rights. It took a few assertions on my part to finally get it through his head that that was not a…

When the only speech that is relevant has been reduced to that which is published or broadcast with mass media; and when nearly all such venues are policed by supporters of the left, in a private context; then the Democratic party only needs to set the narrative in order to discredit or silence their opponents in relevant venues. This to me, is a tactic to circumvent the first amendment, and is very much done so by a…

That is an unfair and polarizing take on my statement. It is also whataboutism. Newsmax, Fox, Breitbart, Limbaugh, Storm Front, etc. have more than enough outlets for the right wing to have their safe spaces. When Reddit was accused of setting the narrative to discredit their opponents in relevant venues, Voat provided a safe space for them to continue.

The Democratic party has not controlled the narrative for a long long time. I know people sometimes need a bogeyman to have something to rail against but this isn't it.

Again, First Amendment is to stop the US government from suppressing speech. If Voat had been shut down and the yellow bellies behind Breitbart arrested, you would have a case. But that hasn't happened. Instead the constant whining about 'fake news' by the current administration has been a far sinister and much more effective attempt at speech suppression by driving people into their various safe spaces.

Re: Airbnb is banning people trying to attend a white supremacist rally

#55

Post by Daishiman »

ggreer wrote: post #10
Daishiman wrote: post #2

Not a problem.

You aren't worried that Airbnb's net will catch innocent people? For example: Journalists covering the rally, or counter-protesters.

These people weren't hiding anything about their position on this matter. So no, not really.

Re: Airbnb is banning people trying to attend a white supremacist rally

#56

Post by dragonwriter »

celdon25 wrote: post #39
abawany wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You would be surprised how many people do not understand that the First Amendment applies to the government. A former manager, a seemingly rational person, once started to rant about pro-liberal censorship on Twitter (during the time that Yiannopoulos person was banned) and how that is a violation of his First Amendment rights. It took a few assertions on my part to finally get it through his head that that was not a…

When the only speech that is relevant has been reduced to that which is published or broadcast with mass media; and when nearly all such venues are policed by supporters of the left, in a private context; then the Democratic party only needs to set the narrative in order to discredit or silence their opponents in relevant venues. This to me, is a tactic to circumvent the first amendment, and is very much done so by a…

> When the only speech that is relevant has been reduced to that which is published or broadcast with mass media; and when nearly all such venues are policed by supporters of the left, in a private context

The rise of the right and the general rightward shift over the past several decades has been largely driven by the right policing and pressuring the mass media (the Democratic Party shifting it's center of power from center-left to center-right in the 1990s helped); to the extent there is even a remotely defensible appearance that the right is not favored by the mass media it's because in theblast couple years the Republican Party has shot rightward faster than the media and public discourse has, outpacing the movement of the Overton Window.

Re: Airbnb is banning people trying to attend a white supremacist rally

#57

Post by celdon25 »

abawany wrote: post #54
celdon25 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When the only speech that is relevant has been reduced to that which is published or broadcast with mass media; and when nearly all such venues are policed by supporters of the left, in a private context; then the Democratic party only needs to set the narrative in order to discredit or silence their opponents in relevant venues. This to me, is a tactic to circumvent the first amendment, and is very much done so by a…

That is an unfair and polarizing take on my statement. It is also whataboutism. Newsmax, Fox, Breitbart, Limbaugh, Storm Front, etc. have more than enough outlets for the right wing to have their safe spaces. When Reddit was accused of setting the narrative to discredit their opponents in relevant venues, Voat provided a safe space for them to continue. The Democratic party has not controlled the narrative for a long…

Oh please, those outlets you've mentioned have been marginalized and made the butt of every joke since the 1990s, just about as long as they have existed. They are the original echo chambers. Saying that one is allowed to preach to the choir is a straw man.

If you want examples about these things happening, YouTube channels like this one have had their money taken away by Google due to being "offensive" when it is actually just not on the same side of the political fence. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DshdVX_MlSo

Re: Airbnb is banning people trying to attend a white supremacist rally

#58

Post by abawany »

celdon25 wrote: post #57
abawany wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is an unfair and polarizing take on my statement. It is also whataboutism. Newsmax, Fox, Breitbart, Limbaugh, Storm Front, etc. have more than enough outlets for the right wing to have their safe spaces. When Reddit was accused of setting the narrative to discredit their opponents in relevant venues, Voat provided a safe space for them to continue. The Democratic party has not controlled the narrative for a long…

Oh please, those outlets you've mentioned have been marginalized and made the butt of every joke since the 1990s, just about as long as they have existed. They are the original echo chambers. Saying that one is allowed to preach to the choir is a straw man. If you want examples about these things happening, YouTube channels like this one have had their money taken away by Google due to being "offensive" when it is ac…

Again, my point with the First Amendment in my original comment stands, i.e. the government is not and has not been responsible for these alleged suppressions. You are making a point that you likely think is relevant to the overall thread and if so, please make it at the top level of the thread.

I strongly disagree that there is some vast left-wing/liberal conspiracy to suppress right-wing speech. I can concede that both sides do their part to ensure that the opposing side's viewpoint is suppressed, marginalized, and ridiculed (e.g. Fox News, Info Wars.) It pits people against each other for no good reason, causes deterioration in social well-being, and makes us unable to work together as a society. Maybe we can just agree that people are what they are and leave it at that.

Re: Airbnb is banning people trying to attend a white supremacist rally

#59

Post by Daishiman »

averagewall wrote: post #52
Frondo wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shouldn't this be a situation where the market decides, then? AirBNB, developed in leftist SF: No white supremacists on our system. AryanBNB, developed in northern Idaho: White supremacists welcome! If people are really that turned off by AirBNB banning white supremacists, they'd flock to AryanBNB, wouldn't they? For my part, I just don't think this slope is that slippery. I'd happily prohibit white supremacists from…

That reason isn't consistent with popular ideology. If it was valid, you could also make the same argument for AirBNB banning gays and say "well, gays can make their own GayBNB if they want. Let the market decide!" No. That wouldn't be fair for gays to be sidelined to the necessarily inferior minority service. Most customers won't use the GayBNB as a political gesture. Just as most Uber users didn't really switch to…

The difference is that we've agreed for the most part that sexual orientation should be a protected class, and being a white supremacist should not be.

It's so blindingly obvious that I have no idea why you'd ever make that argument.

Nobody cares about sidelining white supremacists.

Re: Airbnb is banning people trying to attend a white supremacist rally

#60

Post by Daishiman »

losteverything wrote: post #30

Holiday Inn: "Yes, we have availability. How many nights?" Airbnb: fuck off. To me, this is a perfect example of why hotels and motels will ALWAYS matter.

Are you really so naive as to think that most hotel chains just turn a blind eye to white supremacist groups? I bet you almost none of them would host a KKK conference in their premises.

And I bet the net return for them would still be positive for that.

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