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Apple staffers reportedly rebelling against open office plan

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Re: Apple staffers reportedly rebelling against open office plan

#331

Post by jacobr »

We have screen walls (~2 meters) around teams of 2-4 people. I think 2-4 people is a decent compromise, you get friction-less cooperation with the people you work with but you don't get to overhear 20 different conversations about what someone did on their weekend.

I am still bothered by other people's conversations across the screen-walls though, and I prefer to not listen to music all day.

Our CEO is sympathetic to the issue with open offices and maybe if we move to another place it will have a different layout, but converting an open office to separate rooms is not that easy. Does anyone have any suggestions when management would actually accept taking measures to avoid the negatives of open office plans?

Are there 4m high screen walls, with doors..?

Re: Apple staffers reportedly rebelling against open office plan

#333

Post by eecc »

matthewmacleod wrote: post #168
seorphates wrote: post #47

Working in open office plans is simply awful. Personally I believe remote work, for any tech-enabled employer, makes the most sense. The impact on infrastructure by removing commuting alone could maybe help save the planet. And our collective sanity. Wouldn't it be nice to have ISPs that can provide an infrastructure that could actually support that? I think so. The hideous effects of cluster-fucking hundreds of thou…

No, it’s not simple. I am awfully bored of these “everything is simple, open offices are uniformly awful, everybody should be remote” arguments. Yes - this works for some people, in some workplaces. In other cases, it doesn’t work. I’m fine with my open office space, and I prefer working from an office - which is a bike ride away and better equipped than I am. How about instead we accept that there are almost certain…

If you're working for a much-desired company rather than building crusty wordpressers then that "home 10 min bike away from the office" is going to cost you more than half your salary

Re: Apple staffers reportedly rebelling against open office plan

#334

Post by eecc »

stale2002 wrote: post #312
rsj_hn wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are a developer who has to check in code, then you need a quiet place for focused work. You can try to argue that some developers don't need that, but those who can achieve peak concentration while context switching and talking to others are biological curiosities, if they exist at all. I haven't met anyone like that. Now most employees working in tech companies are not developers. There is a whole "developer…

Hypothetical scenario here: Lets say that you have a 5 minute question, that would save you an hour of work. In a closed/cubicle style office, you may be less willing to bug your expert co-worker. In an open office, it may be perfectly normal to turn to your left, and quickly ask you question. Sure, you are taking time out of your co-worker's day, but even so, on the net whole, asking the question is probably a net b…

Civilized people use email or whatever is the asynchronous communication medium du jour

Re: Apple staffers reportedly rebelling against open office plan

#335

Post by eecc »

As a freelancer I'm looking forward to the day my customers will accept that I'm just as effective (actually more so) sitting in my own shared office space located just a short commute from home rather than their own desk and office, alas a grueling journey away.

I guess they don't trust us children doing the work we are assigned and want to smell us sweating away at their stinky enterprise codebases

Re: Apple staffers reportedly rebelling against open office plan

#336

Post by prawn »

Clubber wrote: post #264
matthewmacleod wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it’s not simple. I am awfully bored of these “everything is simple, open offices are uniformly awful, everybody should be remote” arguments. Yes - this works for some people, in some workplaces. In other cases, it doesn’t work. I’m fine with my open office space, and I prefer working from an office - which is a bike ride away and better equipped than I am. How about instead we accept that there are almost certain…

I think if a company offered an open office plan with the option to remote full time, you might be the only person in the office. :)

I own/run a co-working space which is almost entirely open plan. Many people here elect to work in this sort of environment rather than at home. People use headphones if they need to focus.

Personally, at home I am too easily distracted - I can pick through the fridge or cupboards, or read news sites forever. At the office, my screen is visible and as such I'm more likely to stay focused. I vastly prefer the incidental social interactions in an open plan office too.

Not everyone loves open-plan, but if it was truly a disaster, the space wouldn't be full.

Re: Apple staffers reportedly rebelling against open office plan

#337

Post by mathw »

ThrustVectoring wrote: post #211
pteredactyl wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Visual distraction is very real when trying to focus.

Visual distraction is the second worst, IMO, with noise in third. Number 1 is vibration and physical movement. I've had a desk environment where two folks would be sitting on opposite sides of a wide table, so there's one shared and non-isolated surface that both people work on. Every time my coworker would stand up, they'd brace themselves on the desk and shake the shit out of it, and I never learned to filter it ou…

Where I currently am (I'm a consultant, based mostly in various client offices), the floor has a lot of flex in it. When people walk past, I can feel it bouncing under my chair.

We do have decent-sized desks, so the open plan isn't too bad. It's actually pretty good as these things go, although there are no kitchens in which one can make a proper cup of tea.

No proper kitchens for tea-making.

We're in England.

Come on!

Admittedly this is a German company I'm working with at the moment, but still, the office is full of Brits.

Open plan is perfectly normal here, but I still hate it. Especially the ones where they put really loud people near you (but you can't make a seating plan based on how loudly people tend to talk), or when there are people whose jobs involve loads of phone calls and who shout down their headsets, in the same open plan space as a highly technical team who really need to concentrate and occasionally have a quiet conversation with each other.

No one space works for everyone. It just doesn't. And that's not even taking into account personal variations, as we've seen from these comments some people like the open collaborative possibility and some feel the need to hide away and bash the keyboard for hours at a time.

I have days when I want to do one, and days for the other, so I really don't know what kind of office I'd like!

Re: Apple staffers reportedly rebelling against open office plan

#338

Post by bumblebeard »

synicalx wrote: post #262

We're going one step better at my work with our new/future office, "Activity Based Working". All the trappings of "open plan" but with even more features to make Government work more soul-crushing and complicated. One office, with desks for 80% of the staff (because the other 20% need to take the hint and resign). Each desk only has one monitor, keyboard, and a mouse. If you've got certain ergonomic requirements, or…

That sounds infuriating. Have you started looking for another job yet? I know I would.

Re: Apple staffers reportedly rebelling against open office plan

#339

Post by prawn »

Steeeve wrote: post #285
inetknght wrote: post #85

My company only has offices for upper management. Everyone else is at a table . Tables are arranged in groups of four. Now, I get it, some people like open office environments. Good for them. Me? Well, I've told many coworkers that I can't work from home because I wouldn't work from home. There are too many distractions at home, so I need to be at the office to be productive. But this open office? There are days wher…

> some people like open office environments I don't know of anyone that prefers an open office.

Hi! Personally, I really like working in an open office. I'm in a room of ten desks, all small businesses that have elected to work in this space rather than employees forced to. There is background music playing. People occasionally take calls at their desk if they can't relocate to the meeting room. People use headphones if they want to concentrate.

Most people here are reasonably sociable, but also focus on their work well.

I would really dislike being in a private office, solo cubicle or working from home day after day. (I've experienced each of these in the past.) I enjoy coming into the office even if it means a commute, not having endless snacks at my disposal, etc.

Re: Apple staffers reportedly rebelling against open office plan

#340

Post by torrent-of-ions »

stale2002 wrote: post #312
rsj_hn wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are a developer who has to check in code, then you need a quiet place for focused work. You can try to argue that some developers don't need that, but those who can achieve peak concentration while context switching and talking to others are biological curiosities, if they exist at all. I haven't met anyone like that. Now most employees working in tech companies are not developers. There is a whole "developer…

Hypothetical scenario here: Lets say that you have a 5 minute question, that would save you an hour of work. In a closed/cubicle style office, you may be less willing to bug your expert co-worker. In an open office, it may be perfectly normal to turn to your left, and quickly ask you question. Sure, you are taking time out of your co-worker's day, but even so, on the net whole, asking the question is probably a net b…

I've wasted entire days answering a few five minute questions and not being able to get anything done. IF you have a question, email me and I'll look at it when I can and maybe arrange a time to talk about it. Being randomly interrupted because it will save an hour of your time means I'll never get any work done at all (and get none of the credit for your work).
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