Apple staffers reportedly rebelling against open office plan • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple staffers reportedly rebelling against open office plan

#261

Post by jschwartzi » Wed, Aug 09, 2017, 3:46 AM UTC

inetknght wrote: post #145

Hnrobert42 wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suggest using Hearo's 32 NRR earplugs under the headphones. When people approach to bullshit with you, ignore them for a little bit. If they persist, make a show of taking off the headphones and extracting the earplugs. People will soon learn to leave you alone when you have your headphones on. At least, it worked for me, mostly.

I've had two different earplugs. I don't remember the first brand, it was close to 20 years ago by now. The second pair is a discontinued Skullcandy. They work well enough but they're not really noise cancelling ... more like noise blocking . They're wearing out though. Last week I pulled one out of my ear and it left the rubber piece in my ear. That wasn't fun to fish out. I bought a pair of Bose QC35 on Sunday. Ove…

My Sennheiser HD280 Pros are pretty good, and as a bonus the cable is durable enough that I can use them to lasso uncooperative coworkers while I'm listening to music.

Re: Apple staffers reportedly rebelling against open office plan

#262

Post by synicalx » Wed, Aug 09, 2017, 3:46 AM UTC

We're going one step better at my work with our new/future office, "Activity Based Working". All the trappings of "open plan" but with even more features to make Government work more soul-crushing and complicated.

One office, with desks for 80% of the staff (because the other 20% need to take the hint and resign). Each desk only has one monitor, keyboard, and a mouse. If you've got certain ergonomic requirements, or need a colour accurate monitor, or a large monitor, or several monitors then you're just a naysayer who is obviously not productive enough to understand the ways of the future.

No one 'has' a desk, instead you grab your laptop out of your locker each morning and go find one. Or you might be allocated a desk via a morning raffle, not sure on this one yet. At the end of each day you clean every surface with alcohol wipes, which you then queue up to place in the singular bin that services the 300ish staff. Anyone who sits at the same desk twice will have to complete "Activity Based Working" training, in much the same way intoxicated road users may attend a DUI class.

There will also be no car parks for staff, who are being encouraged to use public transport. The fact that this public transport doesn't actually exist yet is just a "growth opportunity", but who's growth we're referring to here is not yet clear.

This might all sound like a joke, but the sad thing is it's 100% serious. Literally all of the above has been set in stone by minister that our department reports to.

Re: Apple staffers reportedly rebelling against open office plan

#263

Post by fooey » Wed, Aug 09, 2017, 3:46 AM UTC

blauditore wrote: post #125

seorphates wrote: post #47

Working in open office plans is simply awful. Personally I believe remote work, for any tech-enabled employer, makes the most sense. The impact on infrastructure by removing commuting alone could maybe help save the planet. And our collective sanity. Wouldn't it be nice to have ISPs that can provide an infrastructure that could actually support that? I think so. The hideous effects of cluster-fucking hundreds of thou…

I totally see the issue with open offices, especially if they're densely populated. But I think home office has certain shortcomings as well: Communication quality is not as good over video or text chat as IRL, nuances are missed more easily and sharing a whiteboard is harder. In addition, I have the impression that some people slack off much more because they feel "unwatched".

I know I'm weird, but I don't recall ever in my career wanting to use a whiteboard

Re: Apple staffers reportedly rebelling against open office plan

#264

Post by Clubber » Wed, Aug 09, 2017, 3:48 AM UTC

matthewmacleod wrote: post #168

seorphates wrote: post #47

Working in open office plans is simply awful. Personally I believe remote work, for any tech-enabled employer, makes the most sense. The impact on infrastructure by removing commuting alone could maybe help save the planet. And our collective sanity. Wouldn't it be nice to have ISPs that can provide an infrastructure that could actually support that? I think so. The hideous effects of cluster-fucking hundreds of thou…

No, it’s not simple. I am awfully bored of these “everything is simple, open offices are uniformly awful, everybody should be remote” arguments. Yes - this works for some people, in some workplaces. In other cases, it doesn’t work. I’m fine with my open office space, and I prefer working from an office - which is a bike ride away and better equipped than I am. How about instead we accept that there are almost certain…

I think if a company offered an open office plan with the option to remote full time, you might be the only person in the office. :)

Re: Apple staffers reportedly rebelling against open office plan

#265

Post by downrightmike » Wed, Aug 09, 2017, 3:49 AM UTC

hindsightbias wrote: post #204

seorphates wrote: post #47

Working in open office plans is simply awful. Personally I believe remote work, for any tech-enabled employer, makes the most sense. The impact on infrastructure by removing commuting alone could maybe help save the planet. And our collective sanity. Wouldn't it be nice to have ISPs that can provide an infrastructure that could actually support that? I think so. The hideous effects of cluster-fucking hundreds of thou…

> remote work It doesn't help if you're in the Bay. Home, road, sewer, curb, sidewalk construction, 3 neighbors with leaf blowers regimens nearly ever day... And that's just this year.

Have a kid or know someone who does? Get that kid to do the work at all 3 houses. That way only noise one at a time and probably after school 3-5pm-ish

Re: Apple staffers reportedly rebelling against open office plan

#266

Post by Clubber » Wed, Aug 09, 2017, 3:50 AM UTC

christophilus wrote: post #238

matthewmacleod wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it’s not simple. I am awfully bored of these “everything is simple, open offices are uniformly awful, everybody should be remote” arguments. Yes - this works for some people, in some workplaces. In other cases, it doesn’t work. I’m fine with my open office space, and I prefer working from an office - which is a bike ride away and better equipped than I am. How about instead we accept that there are almost certain…

> Provide open office space for those who thrive in that environment. Make sure there are private areas for those who don’t. Establish a culture that supports remote workers, and encourages good behaviour in shared areas. Yep. This is what needs to be done. One thing I'll note is that in my experience, remote workers are 2nd class citizens unless the company is a remote-first company. And if the company is bought or…

In my experience, non-managers are all 2nd class citizens. Given the option to remote full time for 5 years at company A vs. be in the office full time at company B and be a 1st class, 2nd class citizen, I'll chose A.

Re: Apple staffers reportedly rebelling against open office plan

#267

Post by Veratyr » Wed, Aug 09, 2017, 3:51 AM UTC

a3n wrote: post #232

In (almost) all open office environments, people above a certain level have private offices. Why? Why don't they want to be as productive and collaborative as their reports? Conference rooms and phone rooms are just as available to them as they are to the rest. They can probably even afford much better head phones than the rest. I just don't see enough of a difference to justify it.

I don't really buy it but a potential reason is that people above a certain level have a business need for a private space.

Say you need to be on the phone all day talking about privileged information like the upcoming earnings call or a major business deal. Even at lower levels than that, maybe someone wants to come to you in private with a complaint or maybe you need to tell someone they're underperforming. You could do these things in meeting rooms like everyone else but if you're doing it 75% of the time you're working, you may as well have a private meeting room (i.e. office).

There's also security. People with higher privileges have more sensitive information that needs to be better protected. Yes workstations should be encrypted and confidential paper documents shouldn't be laying around the office but defence in depth is a thing.

Efficiency is another concern. The time of people at a certain level is extremely valuable and it can be wasted on suboptimal collaboration. Their time needs to be planned very carefully.

And finally, it's just a perk.

Re: Apple staffers reportedly rebelling against open office plan

#268

Post by Clubber » Wed, Aug 09, 2017, 3:51 AM UTC

fooey wrote: post #263

blauditore wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I totally see the issue with open offices, especially if they're densely populated. But I think home office has certain shortcomings as well: Communication quality is not as good over video or text chat as IRL, nuances are missed more easily and sharing a whiteboard is harder. In addition, I have the impression that some people slack off much more because they feel "unwatched".

I know I'm weird, but I don't recall ever in my career wanting to use a whiteboard

I hear they are great for asking how merge sort works during interviews for a CRUD application.

Re: Apple staffers reportedly rebelling against open office plan

#269

Post by Clubber » Wed, Aug 09, 2017, 3:53 AM UTC

TheSoftwareGuy wrote: post #152

notyourwork wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If employees are measured correctly, it is impossible to slack off. In engineering, measuring hours is silly, measuring output and throughput is what determines performance.

And what do you propose is the correct way of collecting these measurements?

I mean you know who is good in your team don't you? It doesn't have to be on a spreadsheet, qualitative results still count.

Re: Apple staffers reportedly rebelling against open office plan

#270

Post by Clubber » Wed, Aug 09, 2017, 3:55 AM UTC

freehunter wrote: post #260

bamboozled wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work remotely too and I often think about how much this has reduced my environmental footprint. It would be interesting to see some figures on how much of a positive impact it has.

I worry about how much it increases my environmental footprint. I have an entire house of climate control being used for the sake of one person. I have lights in the house being used for one person. Sure I don’t commute by car, but I’m willing to bet commercial HVAC systems are more efficient per person and commercial lighting systems are more efficient per person and all of the other things that go into an office ar…

Turn off your central and get a window unit and a desk fan for your home office. I don't run central most of the time because it's expensive.

You could always cool of the way God intended, sweat your ass off. :)