Apple staffers reportedly rebelling against open office plan • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple staffers reportedly rebelling against open office plan

#131

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 11:24 PM UTC

blauditore wrote: post #125

seorphates wrote: post #47

Working in open office plans is simply awful. Personally I believe remote work, for any tech-enabled employer, makes the most sense. The impact on infrastructure by removing commuting alone could maybe help save the planet. And our collective sanity. Wouldn't it be nice to have ISPs that can provide an infrastructure that could actually support that? I think so. The hideous effects of cluster-fucking hundreds of thou…

I totally see the issue with open offices, especially if they're densely populated. But I think home office has certain shortcomings as well: Communication quality is not as good over video or text chat as IRL, nuances are missed more easily and sharing a whiteboard is harder. In addition, I have the impression that some people slack off much more because they feel "unwatched".

[deleted]

Re: Apple staffers reportedly rebelling against open office plan

#132

Post by pilsetnieks » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 11:25 PM UTC

maxxxxx wrote: post #64

Spooky23 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure Jony Ive has an office.

Yes. Once I see all the big shots sitting elbow by elbow at a long table the whole day I will revise my opinion about open offices.

Musk and Zuckerberg "sit" among the peasants. It makes for a good photo op but in reality they have to spend very little time at their desk. At that level, they probably spend most of their time in meetings, and even when not, it's not like anyone would chastise them for behaving inconsiderately to other people in the office, or taking over a conference room as their impromptu office.

Re: Apple staffers reportedly rebelling against open office plan

#133

Post by Hnrobert42 » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 11:27 PM UTC

inetknght wrote: post #85

My company only has offices for upper management. Everyone else is at a table . Tables are arranged in groups of four. Now, I get it, some people like open office environments. Good for them. Me? Well, I've told many coworkers that I can't work from home because I wouldn't work from home. There are too many distractions at home, so I need to be at the office to be productive. But this open office? There are days wher…

I suggest using Hearo's 32 NRR earplugs under the headphones. When people approach to bullshit with you, ignore them for a little bit. If they persist, make a show of taking off the headphones and extracting the earplugs. People will soon learn to leave you alone when you have your headphones on. At least, it worked for me, mostly.

Re: Apple staffers reportedly rebelling against open office plan

#134

Post by tossaway2847 » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 11:27 PM UTC

jansho wrote: post #89

They should do more huts instead. https://officesnapshots.com/2012/07/16/pixar-headquarters-an...

As a current Pixar employee, the open office trend has unfortunately spread to our admittedly beautiful campus. You have to be fairly senior to get an office around here, lowlifes like me get stuck in shared open hallways and the like.

Re: Apple staffers reportedly rebelling against open office plan

#135

Post by PopsiclePete » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 11:27 PM UTC

aphextron wrote: post #103

IanDrake wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh boy, two desks facing each other with low walls. Here's what that's like: You're looking at your monitor and in your peripheral vision, just above your monitor, is someone looking at their monitor. You're basically looking at each other. They answer their mobile with their head phones on. "Hey" It looks like they're looking at you and you never saw their subtle click on the inline toggle below your view. "What's u…

Let's not forget the constant awkward fleeting moments of eye contact with someone you barely know and don't wish to talk to.

Why do you "barely know" the person across from you?? What, no team building budget?

Re: Apple staffers reportedly rebelling against open office plan

#136

Post by whipoodle » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 11:27 PM UTC

homosaphien1 wrote: post #40

I might be in the minority but I HATE cubicle farms and love open office design. Just give every a sound cancellation headphone if they complain. To me cubical farms are depressing.

> Just give every a sound cancellation headphone if they complain.

God dammit.

Re: Apple staffers reportedly rebelling against open office plan

#137

Post by notyourwork » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 11:28 PM UTC

khazhoux wrote: post #129

(if I may repost a comment I wrote here before...) We have an open floor plan, and it works like this: * Desk area is for getting work done. Everyone agrees on this. * We have "phone rooms" for small discussions. But we limit those usually to 1:1s or discussing office politics. * Try to limit all discussions at the desk area to 5 people or less. * If someone sighs loudly as they put on their headphones when you're ha…

> Engineers tend to be extroverted and won't hesitate to let you know if you're bothering them.

Might be the first person to claim engineers are extroverted.

Re: Apple staffers reportedly rebelling against open office plan

#138

Post by phonon » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 11:28 PM UTC

fullshark wrote: post #71

IBM wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The WSJ story has some pictures of what it looks like [1]. There seems to be offices with doors, but they look like it seats about 20 people. There are also common areas with long tables between them. https://si.wsj.net/public/resources/images/BN-UF776_0817CO_1... https://si.wsj.net/public/resources/images/BN-UF775_0817CO_1... https://si.wsj.net/public/resources/images/BN-UF777_0817CO_1... [1] https://www.wsj.com/art…

Looks like the ministry of information in a sci fi dystopia.

Or a large airport business lounge.

Re: Apple staffers reportedly rebelling against open office plan

#139

Post by notyourwork » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 11:30 PM UTC

blauditore wrote: post #125

seorphates wrote: post #47

Working in open office plans is simply awful. Personally I believe remote work, for any tech-enabled employer, makes the most sense. The impact on infrastructure by removing commuting alone could maybe help save the planet. And our collective sanity. Wouldn't it be nice to have ISPs that can provide an infrastructure that could actually support that? I think so. The hideous effects of cluster-fucking hundreds of thou…

I totally see the issue with open offices, especially if they're densely populated. But I think home office has certain shortcomings as well: Communication quality is not as good over video or text chat as IRL, nuances are missed more easily and sharing a whiteboard is harder. In addition, I have the impression that some people slack off much more because they feel "unwatched".

If employees are measured correctly, it is impossible to slack off. In engineering, measuring hours is silly, measuring output and throughput is what determines performance.

Re: Apple staffers reportedly rebelling against open office plan

#140

Post by Digory » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 11:30 PM UTC

marze wrote: post #111

Apple is famous for pixel perfect prototyping, of numerous possible solutions, before choosing. Did they prototype and test various office layouts? If not, why not?

The WSJ article said Apple prototyped one work area, and then multiplied it across the available space.

"Having settled on an overall shape, the team then broke it down into smaller parts. “One of the advantages of this ring is the repetition of a number of seg-ments,” says Ive. “We could put enormous care and attention to detail into what is essentially a slice that is then repeated. So there’s tremendous pragmatism in the building.” The ring would be made up of pods—units of workspace—built around a central area, like a spoke pointing toward the center of the ring, and a row of customizable seating within each site: 80 pods per floor, 320 in total, but only one to prototype and get right."