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Apple staffers reportedly rebelling against open office plan

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Re: Apple staffers reportedly rebelling against open office plan

#321

Post by Bonge »

The open office arrangement works for some industries but for others, each company would need to evaluate how specialized their workforce is to choose a suitable arrangement.

I would prefer a glass office with the freedom to have it closed much of the day without any "judgement".

I am developer with an office now, but if i close the door I seem to be keeping people off, and not "social" or "accommodating". Leaving the door open exposes me to a lot of distractions (noise, visual-people walking etc, people just stopping by or spying on me) which are unhealthy and reduce my productivity. I have since learnt to ignore as much distractions as I can.

Working previously in an audit firm, the open space worked well, because there is constant collaboration with multiple audit colleagues and all tasks complement each other hence the need to constantly keep tabs. But in development,if I have my specs or requirements , I don't need to keep in touch unless when giving updates, requesting for a resource, asking fr help or something else that is really pressing.

Re: Apple staffers reportedly rebelling against open office plan

#322

Post by morgante »

IBM wrote: post #27
nemo44x wrote: post #6

It all seems so backwards. Instead of having collaborative working spaces with private rooms for meetings, doesn't it make more sense to have private rooms for working and collaborative meeting spaces?

The WSJ story has some pictures of what it looks like [1]. There seems to be offices with doors, but they look like it seats about 20 people. There are also common areas with long tables between them. https://si.wsj.net/public/resources/images/BN-UF776_0817CO_1... https://si.wsj.net/public/resources/images/BN-UF775_0817CO_1... https://si.wsj.net/public/resources/images/BN-UF777_0817CO_1... [1] https://www.wsj.com/art…

These are actually way nicer than I expected. I've seen much more distracting open office layouts.

Re: Apple staffers reportedly rebelling against open office plan

#323

Post by dijit »

Steeeve wrote: post #304
inetknght wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've had two different earplugs. I don't remember the first brand, it was close to 20 years ago by now. The second pair is a discontinued Skullcandy. They work well enough but they're not really noise cancelling ... more like noise blocking . They're wearing out though. Last week I pulled one out of my ear and it left the rubber piece in my ear. That wasn't fun to fish out. I bought a pair of Bose QC35 on Sunday. Ove…

Clarity Aloft. They are ~$700. Pilots use them because they can drown out engine noise (part of the cost is the certification). They are in-ear and do way better than any noise cancelling headphones.

But the QC35 (which I also own) absolutely thrives in that same environment.

The problem is that engine noise is constant where as voices are unpredictable.

Re: Apple staffers reportedly rebelling against open office plan

#324

Post by DocTomoe »

mschuster91 wrote: post #49

I'm happy about German regulations. This would not fly for long in any company with a Betriebsrat ("work council" is apparently the English word) once noise levels get broken.

I'm sitting in an German open-office setup right now. There is nothing in the regulations to forbid these (and most of these Arbeitsschutzgesetze only are applicable to industrial settings).

Re: Apple staffers reportedly rebelling against open office plan

#325

Post by salvar »

seorphates wrote: post #230
matthewmacleod wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it’s not simple. I am awfully bored of these “everything is simple, open offices are uniformly awful, everybody should be remote” arguments. Yes - this works for some people, in some workplaces. In other cases, it doesn’t work. I’m fine with my open office space, and I prefer working from an office - which is a bike ride away and better equipped than I am. How about instead we accept that there are almost certain…

It's sort of telling how far out of my way you went to form an argument against something you manifested all by yourself. You're a bike ride away from the office that you prefer? Fantastic job of deflection. It's rather obvious that there are trade-offs, isn't it? It's pretty clear to me, at any rate, and there's nothing inherently wrong with providing an office. Shame on your words coming out of my mouth. In relatio…

For you. I have a really long commute, and I can work from home if I'd like. I still prefer coming in to my open-plan office. I think his point was that it's not this simple for everyone, even if it is for you.

Re: Apple staffers reportedly rebelling against open office plan

#326

Post by zimpenfish »

fooey wrote: post #263
blauditore wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I totally see the issue with open offices, especially if they're densely populated. But I think home office has certain shortcomings as well: Communication quality is not as good over video or text chat as IRL, nuances are missed more easily and sharing a whiteboard is harder. In addition, I have the impression that some people slack off much more because they feel "unwatched".

I know I'm weird, but I don't recall ever in my career wanting to use a whiteboard

I've used one precisely once in my career to date and that was only to make modifications to something someone else had already done on there.

There's a huge one to the right of me which hasn't changed once in the 6 weeks I've been here - although since it says "NEXT SPRINT: [project X]" and Project X still hasn't really started, I guess it's always correct...

Re: Apple staffers reportedly rebelling against open office plan

#327

Post by michelb »

Raynak wrote: post #297
matthewmacleod wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it’s not simple. I am awfully bored of these “everything is simple, open offices are uniformly awful, everybody should be remote” arguments. Yes - this works for some people, in some workplaces. In other cases, it doesn’t work. I’m fine with my open office space, and I prefer working from an office - which is a bike ride away and better equipped than I am. How about instead we accept that there are almost certain…

And when you've built this office and nobody chooses to work in the open office?

Then you haven't done your homework by talking to your people and should be ashamed that you have designed it like that.

Re: Apple staffers reportedly rebelling against open office plan

#328

Post by rsj_hn »

stale2002 wrote: post #312
rsj_hn wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are a developer who has to check in code, then you need a quiet place for focused work. You can try to argue that some developers don't need that, but those who can achieve peak concentration while context switching and talking to others are biological curiosities, if they exist at all. I haven't met anyone like that. Now most employees working in tech companies are not developers. There is a whole "developer…

Hypothetical scenario here: Lets say that you have a 5 minute question, that would save you an hour of work. In a closed/cubicle style office, you may be less willing to bug your expert co-worker. In an open office, it may be perfectly normal to turn to your left, and quickly ask you question. Sure, you are taking time out of your co-worker's day, but even so, on the net whole, asking the question is probably a net b…

Interrupting other people to ask your question doesn't mean that you are engaging in collaborative coding. Collaborative coding in the sense you describe, doesn't really exist. What does exist is multiple people working on the same project, with their code communicating via interfaces, etc. Each person needs quiet focused time to do that.

The other issue you raised is that sure, your productivity may go up if you interrupt someone and get a question. It's clear that we don't want to optimize for that, because the interruption may cause someone else a loss of 30 minutes before they get back into the zone. It's not just 5 minutes. And 20 minutes into that recovery of concentration, someone else will interrupt them and ask another question. And they will also interrupt you. That creates a very frustrating experience. So it's better to ask your question asynchronously. You will get your answer when the person takes a break and relaxes their concentration. Both of you will be able to exercise control over when you can concentrate on getting your work done. Having that sense of control and ability to concentrate is critical to being productive.

Re: Apple staffers reportedly rebelling against open office plan

#330

Post by dingaling »

Hnrobert42 wrote: post #133
inetknght wrote: post #85

My company only has offices for upper management. Everyone else is at a table . Tables are arranged in groups of four. Now, I get it, some people like open office environments. Good for them. Me? Well, I've told many coworkers that I can't work from home because I wouldn't work from home. There are too many distractions at home, so I need to be at the office to be productive. But this open office? There are days wher…

I suggest using Hearo's 32 NRR earplugs under the headphones. When people approach to bullshit with you, ignore them for a little bit. If they persist, make a show of taking off the headphones and extracting the earplugs. People will soon learn to leave you alone when you have your headphones on. At least, it worked for me, mostly.

> People will soon learn to leave you alone when you have your headphones on.

Or there will be enough complaints about Hnrobert42's reluctance to engage with co-workers that all headphones and earphone will be banned.

That's what happened in an office in which I worked.

After all, you're not there to work for yourself; you're there to benefit for the company. If the company determines that assisting co-workers is more important than your personal solace then so be it.

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