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Why some of the best developers keep quitting

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Re: Why some of the best developers keep quitting

#91

Post by cfusting »

anonacct37 wrote: post #47

This is wrong wrong wrong. Here's why most developers keep quitting: it's because for them the grass really is always greener on the other side. Usually by about 20%. I can only assume that right now the best developers are vastly underpaid relative to their worth. Why? Because it turns out every time they get annoyed with their current company they can send out some feelers and get a 20% raise. Most people can't do…

I agree with the underpaid argument. Remove a few developers and shut down. Remove a few managers and get three hours a day back.

Re: Why some of the best developers keep quitting

#92

Post by autokad »

anonacct37 wrote: post #47

This is wrong wrong wrong. Here's why most developers keep quitting: it's because for them the grass really is always greener on the other side. Usually by about 20%. I can only assume that right now the best developers are vastly underpaid relative to their worth. Why? Because it turns out every time they get annoyed with their current company they can send out some feelers and get a 20% raise. Most people can't do…

pay is a big one, another big one is rapport with coworkers. if someone likes going to work every day talking / interacting with their fellow employees, then its a lot harder to leave

Re: Why some of the best developers keep quitting

#93

Post by avremel »

acconrad wrote: post #7

None of these 4 reasons (TD;LR: you waited until the exit interview, you assume mentors want to manage, you assume the natural ascension of developers is management and not higher-level IC roles, you aren't supporting them and their career) are why they quit. People quit because the modern, zero-loyalty, everyone-for-hire company does not provide a long term strategy for providing intrinsic motivation (autonomy, mast…

In depth article on the quitting economy.

https://aeon.co/essays/how-work-changed-to-make-us-all-passi...

Re: Why some of the best developers keep quitting

#94

Post by oddlyaromatic »

AceJohnny2 wrote: post #19
acconrad wrote: post #7

None of these 4 reasons (TD;LR: you waited until the exit interview, you assume mentors want to manage, you assume the natural ascension of developers is management and not higher-level IC roles, you aren't supporting them and their career) are why they quit. People quit because the modern, zero-loyalty, everyone-for-hire company does not provide a long term strategy for providing intrinsic motivation (autonomy, mast…

> it's best to look at your directs as someone to help them advance for their next job. I'm happy to say this is my manager's position. I joined this team nearly 2 years ago mainly on the strength of a great discussion with him during the interview process, and our team is clearly excellent thanks to him, with significant investment in growth, responsibility and empowerment (I know they're buzzwords but ick, I don't…

I feel this way about my boss, I have stayed a long time after it does not make financial sense because she

A) takes my ideas seriously even if she doesn't see the end game. Just says go for it and see what happens.

B) comes up with trainings and stuff that match my role that she can send me on.

C) holds me to a high standard without being a jerk about it.

I will be bummed to leave and stop learning from this person's example. I'm taking a hit financially but I've come a really long way. So I'm being reaaaal slow in the job hunt. I know when I'm in a good work environment, and I might not find that. At the next job.

As a manager myself, I will go out of my way to retain a good employee. Our wages are low (nonprofit) but we can be very flexible to the needs of an employee. Diligent, dedicated people who care about doing a good job are worth their weight in gold.

Re: Why some of the best developers keep quitting

#95

Post by Retra »

Consultant32452 wrote: post #67
spraak wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand that, but it still hurts.

Stop comparing your salary to the US and start comparing it to India. You can be certain that's what your employer is comparing it to. And as soon as they can get the the same quality of work out of India you'll get the boot.

And how soon do you think that'll be?

Re: Why some of the best developers keep quitting

#96

Post by 36bydesign »

Terr_ wrote: post #85
dlwdlw wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a theory that most people in the US are overpaid. However the overpayment is a strategy by management so that they themselves can be even more overpaid. This can be afforded because the overpaid people are locked into middle class life scripts driving up cost of living (houses) so that they are still reliant on the jobs. It's potential "fuck u" money but isn't because of the attractive force of a domain and re…

If most people are "overpaid", why have wages dropped relative to productivity for decades?

I have a theory that facts don’t matter

Re: Why some of the best developers keep quitting

#97

Post by perpetualcrayon »

Also, some companies haven't bought in to the whole "technology" thing just yet. I've left positions solely because I knew that if I stayed there for too long I would be completely out of touch with what the modern world is doing to fulfill their technology needs.

I can't imagine I'd make the same decision had the company's code base not been worthy of consideration for an exhibit in a museum.

Re: Why some of the best developers keep quitting

#98

Post by thehardsphere »

dlwdlw wrote: post #63
anonacct37 wrote: post #47

This is wrong wrong wrong. Here's why most developers keep quitting: it's because for them the grass really is always greener on the other side. Usually by about 20%. I can only assume that right now the best developers are vastly underpaid relative to their worth. Why? Because it turns out every time they get annoyed with their current company they can send out some feelers and get a 20% raise. Most people can't do…

I have a theory that most people in the US are overpaid. However the overpayment is a strategy by management so that they themselves can be even more overpaid. This can be afforded because the overpaid people are locked into middle class life scripts driving up cost of living (houses) so that they are still reliant on the jobs. It's potential "fuck u" money but isn't because of the attractive force of a domain and re…

Your theory is not based upon sound economics. If everyone was colluding in the way you describe to pay themselves more, then a situation would emerge where companies that didn't comply with this conspiracy would be significantly more profitable than those that did.

Note that, although managers may wish to throw money around because it's not theirs, shareholders view every penny spent on salaries as an expense that eats into their profits. They have an incentive to insist on lower employee salaries whenever possible, and they're typically the ones who make the rules in most firms.

Also, if situations like that could exist, you wouldn't only see them in the US.

Re: Why some of the best developers keep quitting

#99

Post by iends »

Retra wrote: post #95
Consultant32452 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stop comparing your salary to the US and start comparing it to India. You can be certain that's what your employer is comparing it to. And as soon as they can get the the same quality of work out of India you'll get the boot.

And how soon do you think that'll be?

Long after it matters to me.

Re: Why some of the best developers keep quitting

#100

Post by nilkn »

A few other reasons (all that I've seen in some form in the real world):

* Insufficient raises. This is by far the most common reason, but it's been discussed in this thread well already so there's no need for me to dive into details here.

* Over-rewarding of managers and under-rewarding of developers. Very rarely are the management tracks and technical tracks actually equivalent. For instance, managers are granted extra power in the organization and can often grant themselves special perks like private offices.

* In the same vein, under-investing in developer workspaces. Toss me at random into a chaotic open floorplan and you're going to get very little loyalty from me. Show me that you care and are willing to do the best you can to provide me with a productive workspace and I might think twice about leaving, because I don't want to give up an employer who cares for another who'll just toss me into another open playpen.

* Shoehorning someone into a single role or project for years on end. Almost nobody wants to work on the exact same thing for more than a few years unless it's genuinely super interesting. And your projects are probably not super interesting.

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