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Why some of the best developers keep quitting

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Re: Why some of the best developers keep quitting

#71

Post by flukus »

Leon wrote: post #46
mgkimsal wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are actually in the UK, you have some amazing benefits that US-based folks don't get in the form of healthcare. I know, yes, technically, you're paying for it in taxes, but it's there for you all the time, regardless of your employment status or ability to pay for an insurance policy.

In addition to more vacation days, maternity leave, etc

Contractors don't get those. In theory they get paid higher as compensation for not getting them, in practice they generally get the same money with less benefits.

Re: Why some of the best developers keep quitting

#72

Post by [deleted] »

spraak wrote: post #62
orf wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you work in London or Cambridge? If so, that's a pretty low salary for a senior developer. In my experience that's mid level range, you're looking at more 70+k ($90k) for senior. That's excluding finance of course, where salaries are astronomical.

Sorry, I'm actually in the US. I'm surprised to hear that that's a low salary for the UK, as well.

[deleted]

Re: Why some of the best developers keep quitting

#73

Post by rjblackman »

anonacct37 wrote: post #47

This is wrong wrong wrong. Here's why most developers keep quitting: it's because for them the grass really is always greener on the other side. Usually by about 20%. I can only assume that right now the best developers are vastly underpaid relative to their worth. Why? Because it turns out every time they get annoyed with their current company they can send out some feelers and get a 20% raise. Most people can't do…

this is largely my experience, usually I leave because I hear of others at my "level" that are earning more and I start to believe that the company I am at has fallen behind, then I ask for a raise, they don't give it to me and I leave for more money. rinse, repeat. I am underpaid at the moment but what's keeping me around is I get to do what I want and there is not the pressure I had elsewhere.

Re: Why some of the best developers keep quitting

#74

Post by TwelveNights »

rarec wrote: post #3

It's rare to also see these articles point out the immense pay discrepancy that can occur. Companies seem to want loyalty but they don't want to give it. This leads to the merc approach of just selling to the highest bidder.

A shame too because money can be one of the most powerful factors for retention. Someone who enjoys a company could still simply leave due to better prospects elsewhere.

Re: Why some of the best developers keep quitting

#75

Post by user5994461 »

spraak wrote: post #62
orf wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you work in London or Cambridge? If so, that's a pretty low salary for a senior developer. In my experience that's mid level range, you're looking at more 70+k ($90k) for senior. That's excluding finance of course, where salaries are astronomical.

Sorry, I'm actually in the US. I'm surprised to hear that that's a low salary for the UK, as well.

London only, not to confuse with the UK.

Good luck finding a senior developer for £70k over there.

Re: Why some of the best developers keep quitting

#76

Post by majormajor »

tropshop wrote: post #17

What do hyper-productive teams look like these days? I've always been part of small teams, with only a few true workhorses, joined by other filler bodies. Productivity was mostly a mystery to management. I do not understand team sizes of 50+ for some web app product. The formula only requires a few (3) workhorses that make up a collaboration of skills in product design and engineering, and finding ways to keep them c…

My view is that team size should scale with the number of parallelizable features your company wants you to do. If you come to me with one or two at a time, I'm going to want a team of 4, maybe 5 max, people - I don't want more than 3 people swarming on many features, the communication and coordination overhead becomes increasingly high. But if you can give me three to five distinctive things to work on (even if they're in the same codebase) I can find informal "subteams" (with allocation changing as the features change) within the team to own those different areas, and scale up to double digits or more, as they only have to coordinate with the other features at the edges.

But you still gotta pay off your tech debt or it all goes to hell quickly and then you're hiring like mad because changing anything is a herculean task and management is like "just hire more people and get it done faster!"

Re: Why some of the best developers keep quitting

#77

Post by user5994461 »

eikenberry wrote: post #48
tropshop wrote: post #17

What do hyper-productive teams look like these days? I've always been part of small teams, with only a few true workhorses, joined by other filler bodies. Productivity was mostly a mystery to management. I do not understand team sizes of 50+ for some web app product. The formula only requires a few (3) workhorses that make up a collaboration of skills in product design and engineering, and finding ways to keep them c…

It is the same formula... they just have a lot more filler bodies. These large team sizes are at companies that decided to fix the issue of finding good people by throwing money at the problem. If you hire enough people you're bound to get a few competent ones.

Believe it or not, there are large teams with a vast majority of competent people.

Re: Why some of the best developers keep quitting

#78

Post by bassman9000 »

malux85 wrote: post #4

Also - let the developers choose the work. We have a big todo list on the wall, and when a developer needs work, they can choose from the list. If a developer comes to me with a new idea, and it sounds viable, then I give them a bonus based on how well it executes. Everyone is incentivised and motivated to come up with new exciting projects. Smart developers want to create, so set them free! Autonomy, mastery, purpos…

This. And the negative corollary: if you always chose the rad work, and leave your devs the menial work, you're gonna have a bad time.

Re: Why some of the best developers keep quitting

#79

Post by user5994461 »

throwaway5752 wrote: post #41

Two really obvious reason that never seem to get discussed in articles like this: 1. Usually if you've demonstrated success for two years, you can move upwards more rapidly switching companies (up to a point). 2. You've gotten past your vesting cliff, and - particularly with early stage companies - you want to diversify your ISO holdings in the hope of getting a 100xer.

1. Less than a year if you are at the beginning of your career in one of the tech hub.

Re: Why some of the best developers keep quitting

#80

Post by user5994461 »

s73ver wrote: post #21

While most of those boil down to the most common reason: Crappy management, I'm not seeing the second most common reason: Crappy pay (which is just another way that Crappy management presents itself).

And all of that falls under Crappy Environment.
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