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Why some of the best developers keep quitting

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Re: Why some of the best developers keep quitting

#51

Post by pm »

tropshop wrote: post #17

What do hyper-productive teams look like these days? I've always been part of small teams, with only a few true workhorses, joined by other filler bodies. Productivity was mostly a mystery to management. I do not understand team sizes of 50+ for some web app product. The formula only requires a few (3) workhorses that make up a collaboration of skills in product design and engineering, and finding ways to keep them c…

Agreed, communication overhead starts to suck productivity out and areas start siloing off. I think anywhere between 3-5 is a sweet spot.

Re: Why some of the best developers keep quitting

#52

Post by richardknop »

orf wrote: post #39
spraak wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dunno. I work for a company based in the UK, which seems to have much lower pay than the US. I am paid the same as other senior developers at the company, yet my salary by comparison to US standards is quite low ($70k and no benefits since I'm technically a contractor). Otherwise the company is really amazing, so I'm torn.

Do you work in London or Cambridge? If so, that's a pretty low salary for a senior developer. In my experience that's mid level range, you're looking at more 70+k ($90k) for senior. That's excluding finance of course, where salaries are astronomical.

This. For highly talented developer it is definitely possible to make 6 digit salary in London at least, not sure about Cambridge.

Re: Why some of the best developers keep quitting

#53

Post by AlwaysRock »

mcguire wrote: post #49

" Jason Cole: “If you have someone saying, ‘I’m bored’ and you don’t do something about it, expect them to leave for a place where they won’t be bored.” " Ah, if it were only that easy. You fight your way through a half-dozen interviews, get an offer, negotiate until you just want to lay down and die, make it through the six-month ramp-up for the new environment, and then you're bored again. Lather, rinse, repeat, un…

I left my last job because I was bored. All I really want is a challenge to tackle and the flexibly/trust that I will tackle it in my own way.

Re: Why some of the best developers keep quitting

#54

Post by Sleeep »

thomk wrote: post #37

“the number-one reason technical people quit is because they don’t have the option to advance without going into management.” Then it goes on to explain that you should put them into management.

A lot of people (myself included) are very unhappy in management

Re: Why some of the best developers keep quitting

#55

Post by [deleted] »

anonacct37 wrote: post #47

This is wrong wrong wrong. Here's why most developers keep quitting: it's because for them the grass really is always greener on the other side. Usually by about 20%. I can only assume that right now the best developers are vastly underpaid relative to their worth. Why? Because it turns out every time they get annoyed with their current company they can send out some feelers and get a 20% raise. Most people can't do…

[deleted]

Re: Why some of the best developers keep quitting

#56

Post by USANEEDSHELP »

BurningFrog wrote: post #25
malux85 wrote: post #4

Also - let the developers choose the work. We have a big todo list on the wall, and when a developer needs work, they can choose from the list. If a developer comes to me with a new idea, and it sounds viable, then I give them a bonus based on how well it executes. Everyone is incentivised and motivated to come up with new exciting projects. Smart developers want to create, so set them free! Autonomy, mastery, purpos…

How do you handle boring unglamorous but important tasks?

Answer: Automation!

Re: Why some of the best developers keep quitting

#57

Post by matwood »

ringaroundthetx wrote: post #42
throwaway2016a wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience while a developer will say it's not about the money, if the gap is big enough it is disrespectful to the developer and they will (easily) find employment elsewhere. Often time's it's not actually about the money. But the low pay (relatively) is a signal to the developer of how much / little you value them.

> In my experience while a developer will say it's not about the money The people that say this simply rationalize it differently than people willing to say it is about the money. (but yes, there is a group where it really isn't about money) There is a large segment of the population that feels a stigma for admitting monetary motivation, so if its not "ALL" about the money, where all possible factors are money, they…

Money is always a factor, but just like the other factors the amount matters. I’ve taken a little less money before because I liked the job and had control. I also believed it would work out in the end and it did.

I happily admitted if someone offered me %30+ more money I would think hard about leaving. I remember telling my boss that exact thing at the time and he understood. The honesty is one of the reasons I enjoyed the job.

Re: Why some of the best developers keep quitting

#58

Post by stcredzero »

anonacct37 wrote: post #47

This is wrong wrong wrong. Here's why most developers keep quitting: it's because for them the grass really is always greener on the other side. Usually by about 20%. I can only assume that right now the best developers are vastly underpaid relative to their worth. Why? Because it turns out every time they get annoyed with their current company they can send out some feelers and get a 20% raise. Most people can't do…

Most companies don't want to pay for retention.

I'll venture to say this: Not every project knows how to produce long term value, and not every shop is a good long term steward of value. This is a big factor in retention, in part because it's correlated with meaningful work.

Re: Why some of the best developers keep quitting

#59

Post by whipoodle »

joezydeco wrote: post #20
acconrad wrote: post #7

None of these 4 reasons (TD;LR: you waited until the exit interview, you assume mentors want to manage, you assume the natural ascension of developers is management and not higher-level IC roles, you aren't supporting them and their career) are why they quit. People quit because the modern, zero-loyalty, everyone-for-hire company does not provide a long term strategy for providing intrinsic motivation (autonomy, mast…

People quit because the modern, zero-loyalty, everyone-for-hire company does not provide a long term strategy for providing intrinsic motivation (autonomy, mastery, purpose) Rands refers to this as your "shields down" moment. http://randsinrepose.com/archives/shields-down/

It's like the idea of being mercenary is inconceivable. I'm loyal to whoever has the best deal. If my friend invites me to coffee to talk over a better deal than the one I have, I'll take it.

Re: Why some of the best developers keep quitting

#60

Post by spraak »

mgkimsal wrote: post #33
spraak wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dunno. I work for a company based in the UK, which seems to have much lower pay than the US. I am paid the same as other senior developers at the company, yet my salary by comparison to US standards is quite low ($70k and no benefits since I'm technically a contractor). Otherwise the company is really amazing, so I'm torn.

If you are actually in the UK, you have some amazing benefits that US-based folks don't get in the form of healthcare. I know, yes, technically, you're paying for it in taxes, but it's there for you all the time, regardless of your employment status or ability to pay for an insurance policy.

Sorry it wasn't clear, I'm actually in the US.
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