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Google Can't Seem to Tolerate Diversity

bloomberg.com

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Re: Google Can't Seem to Tolerate Diversity

#51

Post by School-Cotton »

blfr wrote: post #9

Has he set Google up for this blowup or do Americans just usually have complaints to federal regulators written and ready to send? Before being fired, Mr. Damore said, he had submitted a complaint to the National Labor Relations Board claiming that Google’s upper management was “misrepresenting and shaming me in order to silence my complaints.” He added that it was “illegal to retaliate” against an N.L.R.B. charge. h…

I'm sure a competent lawyer who deals with employment law could put one of those together in half an hour -- we don't know for sure that he did it himself.

Re: Google Can't Seem to Tolerate Diversity

#52

Post by ithilglin909 »

Here, here. I’m a software engineer who happens to be a woman. Mr. Damore's piece didn’t offend me at all. There were parts I agreed with and parts I didn’t agree with. I’m more bothered by Google’s response(s) which seemed to reveal an incredible lack of critical reading ability, and far more disturbed by the levels of harshly enforced group-think that seem to increasingly dominate supposedly intelligent circles.

Re: Google Can't Seem to Tolerate Diversity

#53

Post by [deleted] »

int_19h wrote: post #25
naturalgradient wrote: post #10

What this whole episode really seems to show is how authoritarianism has crept into our lives and how incredibly difficult it is to resist it even amongst highly educated people. I would wager that none of the people calling for this person to be personally ruined, expelled from society, terminated from their job and forever vilified as an outcast would view themselves as authoritarian. Not the Tweeters shaking with…

> Not the Ex-Google guy with his medium rant about how people would punch him in the face and he would understand. Could you give a link to that rant?

[deleted]

Re: Google Can't Seem to Tolerate Diversity

#54

Post by tanilama »

dangerlibrary wrote: post #23
sidlls wrote: post #8

What's more likely: the author was fired for suggesting alternate methods of improving diversity at Google or the author was fired for repeating unsupported gender stereotypes, offering alternate methods that themselves played on gender stereotypes, and creating an environment in which he would not be able to effectively carry out his responsibilities as a result of promoting gender stereotypes?

A false dichotomy. A third: Google is currently in hot water with the Department of Labor for their extreme gender pay gap and wants a PR win.

How is this a PR win? I don't think any company would love victory like this, not ever.

Re: Google Can't Seem to Tolerate Diversity

#55

Post by tptacek »

This Bloomberg blog post doesn't add anything more to the discussion of what happened than would any >100 word comment, drawn at random from the biggest HN thread on this fiasco. All it's doing here is giving us a license to pointlessly recapitulate the same debate we had yesterday and the day before.

Stuff like this is what the flag button on the site is for.

Re: Google Can't Seem to Tolerate Diversity

#56

Post by dozzie »

whytaka wrote: post #29
gobugat wrote: post #7

> "Companies don’t have viewpoints." They do. Not reacting would have been an endorsement. Many would want to think that these issues are apolitical, or scientific, or anything "neutral". They are not. Make no mistake. This is a fight. A struggle between two visions of the world, maybe more. Such conflicts are not won over peaceful arguments. Sooner or later, one must take a stand, which is exactly what Google execut…

> Not reacting would have been an endorsement. Some have said, "Reacting to it would dignify it". Is that an endorsement? > They are not. Are you saying we can't use science to determine whether differences between the sexes exist? > Such conflicts are not won over peaceful arguments. I think that's a bit of an exaggeration. PS. Why is your username green?

> PS. Why is your username green?

An account created just a few days ago. After some time it will become grey.

Re: Google Can't Seem to Tolerate Diversity

#57

Post by ebola1717 »

naturalgradient wrote: post #10

What this whole episode really seems to show is how authoritarianism has crept into our lives and how incredibly difficult it is to resist it even amongst highly educated people. I would wager that none of the people calling for this person to be personally ruined, expelled from society, terminated from their job and forever vilified as an outcast would view themselves as authoritarian. Not the Tweeters shaking with…

https://mobile.twitter.com/dril/status/473265809079693312

Re: Google Can't Seem to Tolerate Diversity

#58

Post by canoebuilder »

macspoofing wrote: post #6

I am surprised how big this 'manifesto' got. Is it really that big of a deal that it a) got all the press that it got and b) that it required a personal condemnation from "Head of Diversity" and the CEO - who will now hold a town-hall to, I guess, denounce it even more? The entire thing seems like a big nothing-burger from every side.

I am surprised how big this 'manifesto' got.

Imagine how surreal this must be for Damore.

In regards to the explosive nature of this episode, I think it is indicative of the people who seem to be going progressively more insane's realization that their little social engineering experiments curry no favor in the halls of reality and their misguided efforts are rapidly being washed out to the sea of history while the scattered sand from their tantrums is being transformed by the tide into a nice, orderly and peaceful beach for those of us in the reality-based community to enjoy.

Re: Google Can't Seem to Tolerate Diversity

#59

Post by kevinburke »

naturalgradient wrote: post #10

What this whole episode really seems to show is how authoritarianism has crept into our lives and how incredibly difficult it is to resist it even amongst highly educated people. I would wager that none of the people calling for this person to be personally ruined, expelled from society, terminated from their job and forever vilified as an outcast would view themselves as authoritarian. Not the Tweeters shaking with…

A right to free speech doesn't mean you are also free from any consequences for that speech.. ? The Constitution allows you to say whatever you want but your employer's also free to fire you for saying it. As an example, if you say racist things to a customer, your employer should be able to fire you.

I have heard people say he should get fired, but I haven't heard anyone saying he should be "expelled from society" or "forever vilified as an outcast."

Re: Google Can't Seem to Tolerate Diversity

#60

Post by dionidium »

sidlls wrote: post #8

What's more likely: the author was fired for suggesting alternate methods of improving diversity at Google or the author was fired for repeating unsupported gender stereotypes, offering alternate methods that themselves played on gender stereotypes, and creating an environment in which he would not be able to effectively carry out his responsibilities as a result of promoting gender stereotypes?

"repeating unsupported gender stereotypes"

This is the part of this whole thing that bothers me the most. You can't just close this debate down with proof by repeated assertion. Whatever you think about the memo, its author, or the views he's presented, it's simply not settled science and certainly not settled on the side you seem to think it is.†

The following should get you started:

* Steven Pinker & Elizabeth Spelke | The Science of Gender & Science | Mind Brain Behavior Discussion https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hb3oe7-PJ8

* http://slatestarcodex.com/2017/08/07/contra-grant-on-exagger...

Answering questions as complicated as "Why aren't there more women in tech?" is extremely difficult. There are likely lots of factors, all intertwined, difficult to untangle.

The idea that you could just say, "Nope. It's settled. It's 100% sexism and no other cause" is just patently absurd. Anybody telling you otherwise is full of shit.

† Note that the science on this question is independent of questions like "Should he have posted this at work?" or "Did Google handle this the right way?"

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