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Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

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Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#361

Post by johnnyfaehell »

_Codemonkeyism wrote: post #81
mtmail wrote: post #2

According to https://www.cashforless.de/ec_cash_info/Fakten_zur_Kartenzah... methods for payments in stores 2011 was 57% cash, 5.3% credit card, 33% debit card ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_cash ). > "of course, [the Germans] attitudes toward currency must owe something to Germany’s tumultuous monetary history. During the Weimar-era hyperinflation that peaked in 1923 [...]" > "the German tendency to sett…

As a German a.) I mostly pay cash because it's faster b.) some shops that can afford it only have cash payments to save on CC costs Not because of inflation or because something happend 100y ago.

For the most part, I would say paying by contactless is faster than paying in cash because you need to wait for the cashier to find the change for the cash you gave them. Then especially in Germany, people spend ages looking for really small change so if it's 19.64 they can give them 20.14 and get a 50 cent back. Where as contactless you tap the holder and that's it. Even paying by pin is generally faster. The only reason it's sometimes slower is if they use a German bank that wants a signature over the pin or the cashier doesn't know how to use the card machine. (I've had that once or twice in Rewe and Edeka)

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#362

Post by smcgaw »

majewsky wrote: post #350
mohlerm wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it's true even for android. From: https://www.android.com/pay/ Your card info stays safe When you use your phone to pay in stores, Android Pay doesn’t send your actual credit or debit card number with your payment. Instead we use a virtual account number to represent your account info – so your card details stay safe and secure.

> virtual account number So, just as trackable as a credit card number. Or are virtual account numbers unique per transaction?

I believe Apple Pay works the same in this respect so the virtual account number is not cycled per transaction. I can't remember if it's cycled per vendor or just unique per device.

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#364

Post by Thlom »

gingerlime wrote: post #339
codegeek wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an american, I find it strange that cash is faster. Most people who pay cash need to wait to get the change back unless they know the total beforehand and happen to have exact change. In the US, credit card machines are very fast even the chip enabled ones. Cash workflow: - Cashier tells you the total amount - You look in your wallet/purse - You spend time counting exact change if you do have it - If not, you take…

I'm surprised it's not mentioned on other comments, but in Japan, the whole thing is automated. The cashier feeds the cash notes / coins into a machine, and the machine spits out the exact change. It's super-fast, even when the cashier counts your change in front of your eyes, and lays it out neatly onto a tray[0]. I wonder how come these types of machines aren't more popular in other countries. [0] sounds like some…

Pretty normal in Norway as well. Cashier feeds notes into machine, customer drops coins in coin machine. Usually pretty fast if the machine reads the coins/notes immediately.

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#365

Post by exelius »

mtmail wrote: post #2

According to https://www.cashforless.de/ec_cash_info/Fakten_zur_Kartenzah... methods for payments in stores 2011 was 57% cash, 5.3% credit card, 33% debit card ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_cash ). > "of course, [the Germans] attitudes toward currency must owe something to Germany’s tumultuous monetary history. During the Weimar-era hyperinflation that peaked in 1923 [...]" > "the German tendency to sett…

My theory with Germany specifically is that the Germans I have known have all been extremely protective of their privacy. I'd be interested in seeing stats on social media adoption in Germany, because my hypothesis is that they lag the rest of the world.

If privacy is such a concern (and particularly privacy from one's own government), then the use of cash makes sense. My guess is that this distrust of government did grow from the abuses of domestic surveillance by the Nazi regime and East Germany. I'd be curious to see how this breaks down between the old east/west lines as well.

And I'm sure individuals don't use cash for these reasons; but because the system in Germany functions that way out of historical legacy. As a consumer, it's simply easier to buy things with cash.

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#366

Post by Pxtl »

omni wrote: post #315
pascalxus wrote: post #239

The question isn't why germans pay cash. the question is, why would you do it any other way?? I'll tell you why. In other countries we allow credit card companies to tax the masses. By creating regulations that prevent merchants from charging a different price for cash vs credit, you effectively force everyone to pay 2.5% extra for every purchase. That 2.5% goes straight to the credit card companies, even if you pay…

> That 2.5% goes straight to the credit card companies, even if you pay cash! You're going to have to explain how this makes any sense at all

CC company charges 2.5% of overhead on all CC-based purchases. Vendor agreement prohibits passing that markup over to customers, so instead the vendor must pass that cost onto everybody. The net effect is that cash payers are subsidizing the credit card companies.

To encourage this arrangement, the CC companies offer a kickback to the people who use the card, like 1% in cash back or "points" or whatever.

This creates a game-theory problem where the customer is encouraged to always pay with their card, because otherwise they're wasting a percent or two.

In countries where vendor agreements prohibiting passing the fee onto consumers is illegal, stores are able to ensure that cash payers are not subsidizing card payers... But consumers may rebel at the extra fee for paying with card and choose to take their business somewhere else altogether.

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#367

Post by skrause »

harperlee wrote: post #313
pmoriarty wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, but what is "EC" and "SEPA", and what do they have to do with the real cost of dealing with cash?

EC is Eurocheque, a German specific card system. In my experience in Germany, lots of places take EC but neither visa, mastercard or amex, so in effect, only Germans can pay with credit in a lot of places. This is true even in Frankfurt (arguably the financial capital of Europe). In the cafeteria of a place I frequently work, they also don't take cash, so foreigners can't eat. SEPA is the single euro payment area. He…

> EC is Eurocheque, a German specific card system.

Eurocheque hasn't existed since 2003. The current system is Girocard (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Girocard), it's just that the colloquial name is still "EC".

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#368

Post by alaxsxaq »

Maybe it is my German roots, but I share the preference for cash and dislike of personal debt.

More than 90% of my Brick & Morter purchases are in cash up to about $500. I stop at an ATM every couple of weeks and withdrawal $300-$500 dollars and I'm set. Cash is anonymous, quick, a one-time thing (no bills to pay later), and the standard method of payment in the small (rural) stores I frequent.

Credit cards are reserved for buying gas, large purchases, online transactions, and travel.

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#369

Post by skrause »

kuschku wrote: post #301
pmoriarty wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, but what is "EC" and "SEPA", and what do they have to do with the real cost of dealing with cash?

Germany doesn’t use the MasterCard or the VISA network, instead having an entire separate payment network, EC, which uses under the hood wire transfers via SEPA. This is the E in EMV (EC, MasterCard, VISA) which created most of modern payment infrastructure. SEPA is the Single European Payments Area, standardizing how to process fast and cheap payments, all transfers are in Euro, from 2018 on also having a standardiz…

> Germany doesn’t use the MasterCard or the VISA network

Well, it is used (almost all major stores and large grocery chains support both Visa and MasterCard), but Girocard is far more widespread.

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#370

Post by leokennis »

_Codemonkeyism wrote: post #81
mtmail wrote: post #2

According to https://www.cashforless.de/ec_cash_info/Fakten_zur_Kartenzah... methods for payments in stores 2011 was 57% cash, 5.3% credit card, 33% debit card ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_cash ). > "of course, [the Germans] attitudes toward currency must owe something to Germany’s tumultuous monetary history. During the Weimar-era hyperinflation that peaked in 1923 [...]" > "the German tendency to sett…

As a German a.) I mostly pay cash because it's faster b.) some shops that can afford it only have cash payments to save on CC costs Not because of inflation or because something happend 100y ago.

I was on holiday in Germany. In The Netherlands I pay everything with my contactless debit card, where you hold it near the reader, wait 1 second and then you've paid.

Every cashier in Germany (provided they accepted cards in the first place) insisted on "taking" my card, sticking it in the machine for a non-contactless payment, then hand me the machine so I can enter the PIN, then take back the machine, wait for the transaction to finish and then remove the card from the machine and hand me back my card. If that's the standard card-experience, I can imagine why you think cash is quicker...

(At one shop I saw the machine accepted contactless; before the cashier could take my card I quickly paid contactless. The cashier was 50% flabbergasted and 50% upset and seriously doubted I actually paid, until the receipt rolled out to prove it).

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