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Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

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Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#311

Post by danudey »

rubicon33 wrote: post #279
_Codemonkeyism wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cash workflow: - Cashier tells you the total amount - I get a 10 EUR note from my trouser pocket - Cashier gives back money - I put money in trouser pocket - Done - Home: I put all spare money in a large glass jar Credit card workflow: - Cashier tells you the total amount - You look in your wallet/purse - You swipe card/insert in chip reader - You insert PIN number - You shield your PIN entrie from the people next to…

Credit cards don't require a PIN. Just get a credit card and pay it off every month. Free points!

Chip cards in most places in the world require a PIN. It's only the US where (I've ever seen) chip-and-signature (which is a horrible and flawed implementation).

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#312

Post by Samuray »

First, while it's true that the German "Schulden" is related to "Schuld", it's also true that one of the definitions of "debt" is "sin". I don't know if many anthropologists really have wasted much time thinking about this one, but it seems pretty irrelevant to me.

Second, the German banking system is actually very modern. While the Americans and British are still sending cheques through the post, Germans are regularly paying by direct debit and standing order, as a matter of course.

Third, I think a point that may be missing is that Germans might be suspicious of credit card payments as they leave records which can be inspected by government agencies. It's bad enough that they might be able to find out how much rent you pay and how much electricity you use, but they really don't need to know exactly which bar you got drunk in last night. I don't know if anyone's done any serious study into this one, but it is very noticeable that Germans are particularly concerned about their privacy.

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#313

Post by harperlee »

pmoriarty wrote: post #284
hocuspocus wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who lived two years in Germany a) That's a good joke. From faster to slower: NFC > PIN > signature > cash. b) You should look into the real cost of dealing with cash. EC is stupidly cheap since it's basically the cost of a SEPA direct payment (we're talking 1-2 cents per transaction). Debit card payments can also be pretty cheap in Europe. All those annoying restaurants and small shops that take only cash…

Sorry, but what is "EC" and "SEPA", and what do they have to do with the real cost of dealing with cash?

EC is Eurocheque, a German specific card system. In my experience in Germany, lots of places take EC but neither visa, mastercard or amex, so in effect, only Germans can pay with credit in a lot of places. This is true even in Frankfurt (arguably the financial capital of Europe). In the cafeteria of a place I frequently work, they also don't take cash, so foreigners can't eat.

SEPA is the single euro payment area. Here it refers to the cost of a wire transfer.

Now that we are talking about card payments (NFC, chip and pin, etc.): jump into a random Frankfurt taxi in 2017, and IF they are willing to take your card (pretty big if), this will be their method of choice:

http ://fernandodecordoba.es/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/bac1.jpg

They put your card in there, put a paper on top, and proceed to press and copy the embossing of all you card numbers into a carbon copy paper. Talk about swipe card insecurity... That is by far the slowest way, you spend 5 minutes easily.

I agree with the laundering / tax evasion cause only partly: I once wanted to pay upwards of 900€ in IKEA with mastercard. The cashier asked me to go to an ATM that was inside the IKEA building, take out cash from the card, and pay with that. With its scale, I don't think IKEA prefers cash to launder money or evade taxes...

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#314

Post by majewsky »

TillE wrote: post #188
conanbatt wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In america prices are always cent-specific (2.85, 3.78). Berlin, much like Argentina (cash strong markets) have rounded prices for everything, its actually much faster. What ist errible is the waste of time going to an atm frequently, or handling lots of petty coins or bills. Cards are definitely more convenient.

> Berlin...have rounded prices for everything That's rarely the case. I can only think of dm (a drugstore) which rounds all prices in 5 cent increments. Otherwise you see a lot of prices ending in 8 or 9.

Yes, dm's prices are great. That's one of the reasons why I prefer it over Rossmann and Müller.

Also, there are several chains (Netto, Rewe, Kaufland, etc.) where you can round up your total to the next-higher multiple of 10 cents, and the difference goes to charity. I always use that if possible to avoid Buntmetall (i.e., 1/2 cent coins).

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#315

Post by omni »

pascalxus wrote: post #239

The question isn't why germans pay cash. the question is, why would you do it any other way?? I'll tell you why. In other countries we allow credit card companies to tax the masses. By creating regulations that prevent merchants from charging a different price for cash vs credit, you effectively force everyone to pay 2.5% extra for every purchase. That 2.5% goes straight to the credit card companies, even if you pay…

> That 2.5% goes straight to the credit card companies, even if you pay cash!

You're going to have to explain how this makes any sense at all

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#317

Post by Symbiote »

herbst wrote: post #212
Symbiote wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And just what would they do with it? That seems an easy way to get your merchant account cancelled very, very quickly.

But why would they care? Stripe does payments every 3 days or so and you can easily create more accounts. I never ever checked my credit card history, and I assume many people who only use it as secondary payment system don't. It's easy as fuck therefore IMO a valid scenario.

Without the CVC code, Stripe isn't going to accept the payment.

Even if it did, the bank is likely to block the transaction, or call/text for verification.

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#318

Post by kuschku »

calvinbhai wrote: post #282
m_mueller wrote: post #33

As a Swiss German I think the currency stability argument is moot. Swiss Frank is one of the most stable currencies available and we still have a similar attitude to cash as Germans. IMO it's mainly due to the following reasons: 1) CC is slow, at least in Switzerland. Like in Germany, efficiency is baked into the culture - people hate to wait on someone paying his chocolate bar with credit card. It's also not rare fo…

I wonder how this is true "people hate to wait on someone paying his chocolate bar with credit card". In the US, I always wish they had non-cash lanes at grocery stores (especially at Costco, Walmart) because paying cash is almost always a super slow process. Do prices and taxes in Germany for stuff usually end up in whole numbers? I think in that case it's easy to calculate total owed and be ready with the exact amo…

Almost all prices end in .99 or .95, and are with tax included.

So you add the numbers up, pay that much, and get 0.0x back, where x is the number of articles you bought, usually.

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#319

Post by irrational »

davemp wrote: post #290
codegeek wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an american, I find it strange that cash is faster. Most people who pay cash need to wait to get the change back unless they know the total beforehand and happen to have exact change. In the US, credit card machines are very fast even the chip enabled ones. Cash workflow: - Cashier tells you the total amount - You look in your wallet/purse - You spend time counting exact change if you do have it - If not, you take…

I've found cash to be much faster and more pleasent than card for eating out. - Waiter brings check - Leave cost + tip - Leave If you pay with card that's an extra trip from the waiter which can take a pretty long time.

At the restaurants I frequent you can now either pay with an app on my phone or pay at a tablet/device that sits on the table. It is super convenient and so fast.

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#320

Post by Symbiote »

davemp wrote: post #290
codegeek wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an american, I find it strange that cash is faster. Most people who pay cash need to wait to get the change back unless they know the total beforehand and happen to have exact change. In the US, credit card machines are very fast even the chip enabled ones. Cash workflow: - Cashier tells you the total amount - You look in your wallet/purse - You spend time counting exact change if you do have it - If not, you take…

I've found cash to be much faster and more pleasent than card for eating out. - Waiter brings check - Leave cost + tip - Leave If you pay with card that's an extra trip from the waiter which can take a pretty long time.

In countries where paying by card is common, the waiter will assume this and bring the terminal.

You can make it explicit, by having a card visible when you ask for the bill.

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