Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo • Hacker News Board

Re: Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo

#81

Post by mcappleton » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 1:52 AM UTC

muglug wrote: post #36

mcappleton wrote: post #17

He's a good man. I'm sorry to hear google is such a hypocritical company. They preach "tolerance" and yet destroy those who fall out of line from their ideology. They'd make great commies. As for James, I'm sure he'll be able to find a better job. There are still a lot of people in this country with their heads on right. I think I'm going to go as google free as possible now. What's the best alternative to Gmail?

Yes, I'm sure one of the wealthiest companies with some of the best-compensated employees in the world will make terrific communists.

May I remind you that the Russians were the first to space? Also that they created the biggest bomb in history? Also Hitler's top aids all had very high IQs.

The problem with people with high iqs is they think they know everything. And when you think that, that's when you do stupid things. When you get group think going, no one is insuceptible.

Re: Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo

#82

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 1:53 AM UTC

zorpner wrote: post #25

Good. I get that HN is not into this, but this employee stated, bluntly, that they don't believe many of their colleagues should be there because of their sex. Every peer review, every no-hire, every interaction , is and should be suspect. Happy where I am now, but future interviews will include me asking what management would do about this, and termination is the only correct answer. This is textbook hostile environ…

[deleted]

Re: Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo

#83

Post by Pilfer » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 1:53 AM UTC

hardwaresofton wrote: post #58

wildmusings wrote: post #35

The author's arguments have been completely misrepresented. He pointed out widely-believed and sometimes scientifically-established differences in the DISTRIBUTION OF traits in men and women. He said that those differences make attempts to achieve numerical parity misguided, discriminatory, and harmful. What is his conclusion about how we should behave? "Treat people as individuals, not as just another member of thei…

I don't know where everyone is reading their versions of the letter, but I don't think you could read the Gizmodo reprint and misrepresent the argument: https://gizmodo.com/exclusive-heres-the-full-10-page-anti-di... This is where I read up on it, and the letter was written very reasonably, IMO. That article also includes a response from google's brand new VP of Diversity, Integrity & Governance. [EDIT] - original (a…

Gizmodo removed the citations to scientific studies and also took out the images.

The original document is here (credit to lisper) https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/3914586/Googles-I...

Re: Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo

#84

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 1:53 AM UTC

hardwaresofton wrote: post #30

Yep, after reading the public response provided by Google's new Vice President of Diversity, Integrity & Governance ( https://gizmodo.com/exclusive-heres-the-full-10-page-anti-di... ) I was pretty sure this was all that was left. Regardless of whether you agreed with the letter or not, it's 100% correct in asserting that it's super difficult to have productive, rational conversations about the issue of diversity. Goo…

[deleted]

Re: Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo

#85

Post by hkmurakami » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 1:53 AM UTC

wildmusings wrote: post #35

The author's arguments have been completely misrepresented. He pointed out widely-believed and sometimes scientifically-established differences in the DISTRIBUTION OF traits in men and women. He said that those differences make attempts to achieve numerical parity misguided, discriminatory, and harmful. What is his conclusion about how we should behave? "Treat people as individuals, not as just another member of thei…

We've always conflated moral leanings with truth.

Previously, "the truth" was right leaning; it is now left leaning. Unfortunately, many people find (and have always found) that all it takes to dismiss an opposing moral position is to point out that their opponent's position is untruthful, and the discussion (or lack thereof) ends there.

A sibling poster has linked us to PG's essay on "What you can't say", which states my concerns more eloquently and thoroughly.

http://www.paulgraham.com/say.html

Re: Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo

#86

Post by blusterXY » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 1:53 AM UTC

ajross wrote: post #80

wildmusings wrote: post #35

The author's arguments have been completely misrepresented. He pointed out widely-believed and sometimes scientifically-established differences in the DISTRIBUTION OF traits in men and women. He said that those differences make attempts to achieve numerical parity misguided, discriminatory, and harmful. What is his conclusion about how we should behave? "Treat people as individuals, not as just another member of thei…

> He said that those differences make attempts to achieve numerical parity misguided, discriminatory, and harmful. No, he said quite clearly that Google was hiring too many women and minorities (and also that said women and minorities suck at tech jobs, though not in so many words). It's the specifics of the argument that got him in trouble. Bland abstract stuff like you paraphrase above wouldn't get anyone fired.

Perhaps you can post exactly where he said that, because as far as I'm aware he said nothing of the sort.

Re: Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo

#87

Post by sctb » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 1:54 AM UTC

leroyofjenkins wrote: post #68

LiteskinKanye wrote: post #54

I guess Google is no longer the "cool" progressive company it once was. Sad how all big corporations are steered into the same actions. I'm trying to figure out where the next best place to work is going to be.

For you, probably chief of staff for Travis K, or Trump.

We've banned this account for showing up just to violate the guidelines.

Re: Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo

#88

Post by sethev » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 1:54 AM UTC

wyclif wrote: post #31

Fun fact: the author of the memo earned a PhD in Biology from Harvard. Google can fire him and get away with it, but it's going to be tough, very tough, for him to be falsely characterized as someone who is misinformed or unscientific. And the court of public opinion may well be more important in this controversy than any court of law.

Having a phd in biology doesn't prevent someone from being wrong

Re: Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo

#89

Post by elefanten » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 1:54 AM UTC

wildmusings wrote: post #35

The author's arguments have been completely misrepresented. He pointed out widely-believed and sometimes scientifically-established differences in the DISTRIBUTION OF traits in men and women. He said that those differences make attempts to achieve numerical parity misguided, discriminatory, and harmful. What is his conclusion about how we should behave? "Treat people as individuals, not as just another member of thei…

Since you more or less pasted your comment from the other thread, I'll TLDR my same reply:

The claims in this document are FAR from "widely-believed" or "scientifically established". By count, most of his claims are just asserted. But even most of the claims with a link are highly debatable.

This is NOT a particularly good advocacy document on the core scientific questions surrounding inequality. It may have some points in the cultural commentary bits, but stop presenting this as good work (on diversity). It's shoddy and amateur.

Re: Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo

#90

Post by mcappleton » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 1:54 AM UTC

cthulha wrote: post #75

mcappleton wrote: post #17

He's a good man. I'm sorry to hear google is such a hypocritical company. They preach "tolerance" and yet destroy those who fall out of line from their ideology. They'd make great commies. As for James, I'm sure he'll be able to find a better job. There are still a lot of people in this country with their heads on right. I think I'm going to go as google free as possible now. What's the best alternative to Gmail?

> He's a good man. Why do you say that?

He stood up for the truth. Sure he got fired, but he did a good thing and we all benefit. He's like tank man who stood up to the Chinese. Sure they killed him, but we honor people who stand up for truth especially when it comes at personal cost.