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Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo

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Re: Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo

#51

Post by friedman23 »

ll123 wrote: post #37
friedman23 wrote: post #15

I haven't read the memo but I have read some summaries of it. Even before the memo was released I had a negative opinion of it. Not because someone spoke out their mind but because someone decided to just go and shout out their obviously controversial beliefs to the world expecting for his ideas to be taken seriously and for there to be no negative consequences. If you want people to care about what you think and hav…

You can't cultivate a positive reputation and express controversial beliefs

You aren't supposed to start with expressing controversial beliefs.

Re: Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo

#52

Post by ThrustVectoring »

zorpner wrote: post #25

Good. I get that HN is not into this, but this employee stated, bluntly, that they don't believe many of their colleagues should be there because of their sex. Every peer review, every no-hire, every interaction , is and should be suspect. Happy where I am now, but future interviews will include me asking what management would do about this, and termination is the only correct answer. This is textbook hostile environ…

Doesn't a policy of preferentially hiring certain groups necessarily imply that employees who are part of those groups are less capable? Like, helping folks pass the bar implies that they aren't above it - otherwise, why would they need help?

Re: Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo

#53

Post by sidlls »

adbge wrote: post #7

An excellent opportunity to re-read PG's essay, "What You Can't Say". [1] "What scares me is that there are moral fashions too. They're just as arbitrary, and just as invisible to most people. But they're much more dangerous. Fashion is mistaken for good design; moral fashion is mistaken for good. Dressing oddly gets you laughed at. Violating moral fashions can get you fired, ostracized, imprisoned, or even killed."…

Applying the notion of "moral fashion" to this doesn't seem appropriate. It also shows a certain blindness to the problems of sexism and racism especially in the context of this former employee's comments.

Re: Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo

#55

Post by refulgentis »

throwgoog452 wrote: post #43
zorpner wrote: post #25

Good. I get that HN is not into this, but this employee stated, bluntly, that they don't believe many of their colleagues should be there because of their sex. Every peer review, every no-hire, every interaction , is and should be suspect. Happy where I am now, but future interviews will include me asking what management would do about this, and termination is the only correct answer. This is textbook hostile environ…

> this employee stated, bluntly, that they don't believe many of their colleagues should be there because of their sex Did you read the essay? He certainly did not make that claim. Population averages are not statements about individuals. This is pure censorship.

He's implicitly claiming some of them shouldn't be there, or he believes that miraculously every single women at Google clears the bar for desirable traits in a programming without affirmative action.

Come on now, which one do you think he believes? He made it pretty clear, clear enough that pretty much no one would want to work with the dude.

Re: Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo

#56

Post by justforFranz »

hardwaresofton wrote: post #30

Yep, after reading the public response provided by Google's new Vice President of Diversity, Integrity & Governance ( https://gizmodo.com/exclusive-heres-the-full-10-page-anti-di... ) I was pretty sure this was all that was left. Regardless of whether you agreed with the letter or not, it's 100% correct in asserting that it's super difficult to have productive, rational conversations about the issue of diversity. Goo…

Perhaps more important (for Google, at least) is to be compliant with employment law, than to allow "rational conversations about the issue of diversity."

Re: Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo

#57

Post by lsniddy »

zorpner wrote: post #25

Good. I get that HN is not into this, but this employee stated, bluntly, that they don't believe many of their colleagues should be there because of their sex. Every peer review, every no-hire, every interaction , is and should be suspect. Happy where I am now, but future interviews will include me asking what management would do about this, and termination is the only correct answer. This is textbook hostile environ…

The essay was a honeypot, and you all took the bait

Re: Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo

#58

Post by hardwaresofton »

wildmusings wrote: post #35

The author's arguments have been completely misrepresented. He pointed out widely-believed and sometimes scientifically-established differences in the DISTRIBUTION OF traits in men and women. He said that those differences make attempts to achieve numerical parity misguided, discriminatory, and harmful. What is his conclusion about how we should behave? "Treat people as individuals, not as just another member of thei…

I don't know where everyone is reading their versions of the letter, but I don't think you could read the Gizmodo reprint and misrepresent the argument:

https://gizmodo.com/exclusive-heres-the-full-10-page-anti-di...

This is where I read up on it, and the letter was written very reasonably, IMO. That article also includes a response from google's brand new VP of Diversity, Integrity & Governance.

[EDIT] - original (as pointed out by the commenter below) is here: https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3914586-Googles-Ideo...

Read that instead

Re: Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo

#60

Post by chillingeffect »

sna1l wrote: post #5

Not a lawyer, but will he have a case to sue for wrongful termination? I guess without seeing the employee contract and Code of Conduct, it is hard to say.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14952333 "Why it may be illegal for Google to punish that engineer over his now viral memo (cnbc.com)"
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