61–70 of 119 posts
As someone who just moved from New York to Minneapolis (15 years in NYC, last year with a newborn) I want to add that a LOT of the unhappiness has to do with the city. It is truly hard to raise a child there for reasons too numerous to discuss here. The writers didn't have to go to Scandinavia for examples of happy parents, they just had to get out of the tri-state area.
As someone who just moved from New York to Minneapolis (15 years in NYC, last year with a newborn) I want to add that a LOT of the unhappiness has to do with the city. It is truly hard to raise a child there for reasons too numerous to discuss here. The writers didn't have to go to Scandinavia for examples of happy parents, they just had to get out of the tri-state area.
Psst. Now that you're not in New York, you don't need to call it "the city".
Have only been a HN reader for a short time (though I've been linked from here quite a few times), so please pardon my pollution of this story to ask a question: Does this belong on Hacker News? Is Hacker News turning into Reddit (minus the convenience of subreddits)? I visit both because HN was always just solid tech links and news, but several completely non-hacker stories (outside of the fact that we are humans, m…
http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
"If your account is less than a year old, please don't submit comments saying that HN is turning into Reddit. (It's a common semi-noob illusion.)"
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> Yes, because nature doesn't use pain to teach us ever. That's why I can leave my hand on a hot stove until it turns black. I don't to see how is this an argument. I'm not objecting the notion that people can learn to avoid what causes pain. How is it that what you wrote makes sense and supports your case? (that controlling children through pain is good parenting). > There is a difference between corporal punishment…
All discipline is painful. Whether it's physical pain or emotional pain. I believe, based on purely anecdotal evidence, that physical pain is less harmful to a child's emotional well being. Corporal punishment, if administered properly, is over in an instant, and once the child has been made to understand that what they did is not acceptable (and optionally why, depending on the child's age) then reconciliation betwe…
He doesn't have to. It's not an requirement of life that he does. He's just submissive towards you.
I don't see why should it be a requirement. If he does, then why are they still a requirement? If he doesn't, why is it a good thing for him to comply? Why is he afraid? why is he submissive?
I understand you are not going to accept reality here. I know you have rationalizations to justify causing fear and pain in your "parenting". I understand it seem reasonable to you and that's not going to change. I quit.
It's a lot of work. I think that's exacerbated by modern lifestyles. We're pulled in a thousand directions and we're less likely to live near relatives, which means that the support systems are not there like they used to be. Kids demand you . Simple things like watching them playing is huge for them. If you try to understand what they're saying (already at a few months old), you'll be surprised to find it pretty cog…
It's a lot of work, but not because of lifestyle. In reading the article you see that parents, now, spend more time with their kids than previous generations. But kids are coddled more than ever. Between shuttling them to school, soccer practice, and piano lessons it seems like the parents have decided to give themselves these tasks and are surprised! when they don't have anytime for do what they want. If anything I…
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> This societal moralizing about every single aspect of how one should raise their children is a big part of the problem described in the article. Well, you are trying to add unearned emphasis with "every single aspect". It's not about "every single aspect", although it is moralizing about compulsion and pain. > For the record, spanking is not necessarily abuse. depends of the definition. > For you to cite unequivoca…
Well, you are trying to add unearned emphasis with No, it's fully earned. I am a parent. I have witnessed first hand the moralizing, judgement and mutually contradictory universal expectations that random people have about how childrearing should be done. You don't know how much though I have put into the subject and calling it political correctness is incorrect... Fair enough, you may have put substantial thought in…
I don't doubt you are an intelligent person, but it's not showing. I hope you consider it as a possible description and not an insult.
Let's go by parts:
> No, it's fully earned
it is objectively unearned. To earn the complaint of "moralizing about every single aspect" I need first to moralize about every single aspect. I moralized about one aspect.
> I have witnessed first hand the moralizing, judgement and mutually contradictory universal expectations that random people have about how childrearing should be done.
From me? please justify.
> Reframing the debate in terms so negative that anyone would appear insane to disagree with them is classic political correctness.
Please justify how is it that hitting causing pain is not using hitting and pain to shape children.
> Which raises the question, is your duty as a parent to prevent any and all psychological damage to your child?
you changed the subject from causing pain as a value in parenting to preventing psychological damage.
> If the goal is to minimize suffering, then is it better to indulge your child and raise an entitled spoiled individual that will never be satisfied for the rest of their life.
What? you are so far from being able to think about this subject.
> Or is it better to "use fear" (the fear of consequences, whatever they may be) to raise a child that has some notion of negative cause and effect?
I'm done. You could tell yourself I'm quitting because I don't have an answer. I just realize this subject turns brains off for very good reasons.
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Really? Happiness is shallow and consumeristic?
It is if you're dumb enough to have this as your definition of "happiness": 'When I mention this to Daniel Gilbert, he hardly disputes that meaning is important. But he does wonder how prominently it should figure into people’s decisions to have kids. “When you pause to think what children mean to you, of course they make you feel good,” he says. “The problem is, 95 percent of the time, you’re not thinking about what…
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On the opposite end of the spectrum: We're expecting our first child in six weeks. My wife's sister lives two hours away... and every other member of our families lives thousands of miles away, in France and the UK. I have to admit it's a little daunting.
It's not as hard as it seems. Patience is key, but it all comes naturally. Really. I was nervous, but honestly, it's rather easy. Yes, having the relatives close by helped. The best way to look at the situation is to remember that people have been having babies for thousands of years under much more difficult situations. Just love the child. Everything else comes naturally. Edit: Oh, and, of course, Congratulations!…
I disagree.
I agree with your encouraging sentiment but I don't agree that simply loving your child is enough - parenting doesn't come naturally to those who haven't grown up around it. Most people nowadays appear to only have their parents model of parenting to rely on and this appears to lead them to polarise away from how their parents treated them.
Watched Charlie and the Chocolate Factory with my lad J the other day wherein the girl Veruca Salt is spoiled by her parents who simply love her and so give her everything she asks for.
I'm not going to say that you need a degree in Ed-Psych or anything either ...
When you say "it's rather easy" that sends up a few flags for me. Perhaps you can answer this one for me: my (now nearly 5yo) boy has enjoyed learning chess with me and on the whole can move the pieces around and make some trade-off decisions under close instruction, he messed up the board at our last game (after a long chess haitus) because he was losing and then starting flinging stuff around; in short he was upset not to win and said he wouldn't play again. Should I encourage him to play or forget the game (that I know he enjoys and has been nice to play together). If I get him to play should I let him win?
My youngest is now 15mo and is getting fussy about his breakfast food, should I give in and give him what he'll eat at the risk of limiting his palette and enjoyment of a variety of foods or should I force feed him (and starve him if he won't eat it)?
OT now, long post, sorry.
TL;DR I don't think it's easy nor that it all comes naturally.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> This societal moralizing about every single aspect of how one should raise their children is a big part of the problem described in the article. Well, you are trying to add unearned emphasis with "every single aspect". It's not about "every single aspect", although it is moralizing about compulsion and pain. > For the record, spanking is not necessarily abuse. depends of the definition. > For you to cite unequivoca…
Well, you are trying to add unearned emphasis with No, it's fully earned. I am a parent. I have witnessed first hand the moralizing, judgement and mutually contradictory universal expectations that random people have about how childrearing should be done. You don't know how much though I have put into the subject and calling it political correctness is incorrect... Fair enough, you may have put substantial thought in…
Condescension aside, perhaps bobbin is simply familiar with some of the scientific literature on the subject, such as: http://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2002/06/spanking.aspx
> Reframing the debate in terms so negative that anyone would appear insane to disagree with them is classic political correctness.
This is only true if the attempt at reframing is disingenuous. What else is corporal punishment but the application of pain in order to elicit fear?
> is it better to indulge your child...Or is it better to "use fear"
Not hitting a kid is not the same as indulging them. One can be among the strictest of parents without laying a hand on a child.
A time out in his crib? No wonder she hates parenting. If I threw shit at my parents it would have gotten me the mother of all whoopings.
Same here, and I'm sorry that some of the commenters immediately play the "child abuse" card. Teaching your kid that there are boundaries is a good thing, or you will end up with, well, the current generation of teenagers and college-aged kids in the US, who have a whole arsenal of excuses why there aren't doing what they should be doing, a sense of entitlement the size of Montana, and zero sense of responsibility. B…