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Can a Living Creature Be as Big as a Galaxy?

nautil.us

161–170 of 204 posts

Re: Can a Living Creature Be as Big as a Galaxy?

#161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are more bacterial cells in your body than there are human cells. Where exactly do you draw the line between what constitutes "you."

I guess you are just an ever changing object, referenced by a name, created by your parents and affected by your environment. Human myName = new Human(mother, father, environment, spacetime); Location birthPlace = myName.mother.getCurrentLocation; location bithTime = myName.myMother.getCurrentBirthTime; myName.removeAllLimbs(); myName.upgradeAllLimbs(); CloneUtils.cloneHuman(myName, 'myClone') AssertEquals(myName, my…

Hm what happens if we make those values immutable?

Re: Can a Living Creature Be as Big as a Galaxy?

#162
post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only part of the flesh which is "you" is the nervous system. Everything else can be hacked off or replaced without a loss of identity.

So if somebody has a limb amputation, losing a lot of nerves, are they a different person? Is somebody a different person when they're drunk? I've heard both of these thrown around colloquially. It's not obvious or straightforward to answer. You could imagine a Ship of Theseus style replacement of all the neurons in your head with artificial ones. At what point would you stop being you?

Never. "I" am a pattern of self awareness. The constituent parts are irrelevant. So long as the parts support the self awareness, "I" am.

Re: Can a Living Creature Be as Big as a Galaxy?

#163
post #159
post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So if an alien abducted you, created a clone to replace you while you are experimented upon, you'd still agree that you are living normally, and nothing happened to "you"?

Conversely, people usually go through profound behavioral transformations several times in their lives. Does that mean they are not "themselves" anymore?

Very broadly speaking, I would say yes. Again this is just my take, but I argue that different sets of behaviours are indicative of different identities.

For example, at work I may keep to myself and be very quiet - in that setting my actions would define me as an introvert. With my friends I may be more outgoing and talkative, which is more characteristic of an extrovert. So I have two identities depending on my behaviour. I am not my introverted self when with friends, and not my extroverted self when at work.

Re: Can a Living Creature Be as Big as a Galaxy?

#164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess you are just an ever changing object, referenced by a name, created by your parents and affected by your environment. Human myName = new Human(mother, father, environment, spacetime); Location birthPlace = myName.mother.getCurrentLocation; location bithTime = myName.myMother.getCurrentBirthTime; myName.removeAllLimbs(); myName.upgradeAllLimbs(); CloneUtils.cloneHuman(myName, 'myClone') AssertEquals(myName, my…

Hm what happens if we make those values immutable?

That's a bit interesting, what WOULD you do to model this?

Re: Can a Living Creature Be as Big as a Galaxy?

#165
post #60

It's a different topic, but related. I was marveling at the diversity of life on Earth, which led me wonder: to what extent does sustained life on Earth depend on that diversity? I.e., what would be required or different for a planet to host and sustain a single species of life? Given the nature of evolution, and that one subscribes to it, life on Earth started with a single organism that replicated. From that point…

"life on Earth started with a single organism that replicated." I would tend to ponder that life in it's simplest form is not singular and never has been and this is the cause of evolution.

Available evidence suggests that life on Earth has a common ancestor.

This doesn't mean it was the only origin of life on Earth, but it is the only surviving line.

It also took a few days for complexity to arise. About a trillion of them.

Re: Can a Living Creature Be as Big as a Galaxy?

#166

The question is not correctly formed: what we really want to know is if there are life-like beings that could operate on a totally different scale than ours (both time and size wise, including viruses and whales here). Self centered thinking, i.e. restricting our inquiry to only include protein-based lifeforms or other qualities required on our scale obviously prevents us from having the required open minded mindset.

There are more bacterial cells in your body than there are human cells. Where exactly do you draw the line between what constitutes "you."

>There are more bacterial cells in your body than there are human cells.

I couldn't believe this was true so I looked it up. Apparently it really is! Of course the bacteria are on average much smaller and lighter than human cells. Also this:

>The numbers are similar enough that each defecation event may flip the ratio to favour human cells over bacteria

Re: Can a Living Creature Be as Big as a Galaxy?

#167
post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So if somebody has a limb amputation, losing a lot of nerves, are they a different person? Is somebody a different person when they're drunk? I've heard both of these thrown around colloquially. It's not obvious or straightforward to answer. You could imagine a Ship of Theseus style replacement of all the neurons in your head with artificial ones. At what point would you stop being you?

My thoughts are that 'you' as a person change constantly, year to year, and who you are now is not the same as 5, 10, more years ago. I don't think it's so much that you are a different person because you lost a limb or are drunk, it's the change in personality and mind that accompany those that makes that person different. You could absolutely lose a limb and be 'the same' person, but you could also change significa…

Sure but my past selves are also part of who I am. Without them I would not be me, and so I think they are more me than not me.

Re: Can a Living Creature Be as Big as a Galaxy?

#168

The question is not correctly formed: what we really want to know is if there are life-like beings that could operate on a totally different scale than ours (both time and size wise, including viruses and whales here). Self centered thinking, i.e. restricting our inquiry to only include protein-based lifeforms or other qualities required on our scale obviously prevents us from having the required open minded mindset.

Whales are always the go to for examples of large lifeforms but even that is part of the issue you taken about, restricting the definition of a lifeform to being what we think it should be.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/strange-but-true-...

http://oddculture.com/biggest-animal-made-structures-in-the-...

Re: Can a Living Creature Be as Big as a Galaxy?

#169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A zoo is still a zoo if there aren't any animals in it, but it wouldn't stay in business very long. No matter how important the animals are to the long-term viability of the zoo, they are not the zoo. My gut bacteria may be vital to my survival, but they are not me. I don't find placing that line to be difficult at all.

> A zoo is still a zoo if there aren't any animals in it Is it? Identity is an interesting thing. To use a commonly-cited example-- if I swap out the muffler of my car and toss the original in the backyard, I think most would say I am still driving the same car. If I do the same with the front left tire, it's still essentially my car. Even if replace all four tires, same. But what if I swap one part a day with a repl…

A zoo without animals is just a collection of buildings, sure it could be a zoo again but it could also be anything else.

A bit like a Lego house, you can break it up and you have all the parts to make a house, so it is potentially a house but it could also be anything else.

Re: Can a Living Creature Be as Big as a Galaxy?

#170
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it isn't. Imagine a hypothetical sterile human that was single celled - suddenly we've reached the same conclusion without the sub-organism reproduction issue. Making reproduction a core premise of being alive really drives to the idea of mortality, as reproduction is a way of overcoming our mortal coils. Yet, it is truly reasonable to classify reproduction as the only way? It also assumes a lineage, which is not…

Somehow I am having hard time imagining a single-celled, synthetically created, non-water-based, sterile human being... I am not sure I understand the drive to redefine life beyond the life as we know it (i.e. what it actually is, as a fact), the drive that leaves one in what can only be seen as the domain of fiction at best (and pseudo-science at worst).

We are discussing hypothetical life forms, different to the ones on Earth. Obviously we can not use a definition of life which only applies to earth-based life: we need to generalize more.
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