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The Full 10-Page Anti-Diversity Screed Circulating Internally at Google

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351–360 of 660 posts

Re: The Full 10-Page Anti-Diversity Screed Circulating Internally at Google

#351
post #75

"Viewpoint diversity is arguably the most important type of diversity and political orientation is one of the most fundamental and significant ways in which people view things differently." As an experiment, I'd like to see if HN upvotes or downvotes this statement from the memo. I'm willing to put my karma score on the line to find out what HNers believe (this will help me decide if HN is a community worth investing…

[deleted]

Re: The Full 10-Page Anti-Diversity Screed Circulating Internally at Google

#352
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobel Prize winner James Watson Nobel Prize winner Tim Hunt Harvard President Lawrence Summers are the three that immediately come to mind.

I've heard from several people who knew James Watson personally that he was completely off his rocker. He lost his position because he was a total embarrassment, this wasn't the PC police at work. No opinion about the other names.

I believe it, although that makes me think they should have found a more dignified way to retire him than turn him into a pariah.

Re: The Full 10-Page Anti-Diversity Screed Circulating Internally at Google

#353
post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was a STEM major (physics) and I work in tech. I'm attacking from inside, not outside. I think that there is a specific culture in STEM whereby white men who are incredibly gifted and successful in math/science/whatever think that their natural brilliance gives them the ability to speak on all social issues with authority, and that they can speak from a purely rational perspective. My point is that things like your…

Stop mischaracterizing what I'm saying. I'm simply noting that biology is real, and informs a lot of what we do. I'm sorry, but "stories" don't mean anything to me, and again I think it's really strange that people who work in tech, who ostensibly should be more acquainted with data-based decision making, seem to use anecdotes to make what are basically political arguments. I think I'm pretty much done with the Left…

>I'm sorry, but "stories" don't mean anything to me

are you human

Re: The Full 10-Page Anti-Diversity Screed Circulating Internally at Google

#354
post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sex is in fact a binary difference, transgender folk are a tiny proportion of the population.

This is an increasingly outdated view. http://scopeblog.stanford.edu/2015/02/24/sex-biology-redefin...

The page you linked gives the proportion 1/100. Is there something I'm missing?

Re: The Full 10-Page Anti-Diversity Screed Circulating Internally at Google

#355
post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A substantial amount of academic sociology is based on quantitative analyses of survey data. For example, here's an (open-access!) paper describing gender divides in US doctoral education: https://www.sociologicalscience.com/articles-v4-6-123/

Surveys are only useful for studying for what people believe, and only then what they're willing to admit. The discipline shouldn't make any claims about actual behavior when the only observations that could possibly support them aren't permitted.

I agree! People are very inconsistent. They change their beliefs, lie to people, are unsure about things, etc. A lot of sociologists would argue that this is a good reason to combine this kind of quantitative data with in-depth ethnographic observation of real behavior (e.g. https://shamuskhan.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/talk-is-cheap...). When we want to see how someone's opinion actually plays out in a real situation, that's usually our best tool.

Also, a lot of survey data captures demographic characteristics, not just individual beliefs-- think censuses. Surveys are generally considered a robust instrument for measuring things (like income, occupation, gender) that are relatively fixed over time.

Re: The Full 10-Page Anti-Diversity Screed Circulating Internally at Google

#356
post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a woman, the way I feel is whatever the differences are - are hard to prove and isolate outside of our society. Whatever they are makes no difference to me. Every person has a right to pursue their own happiness with their choosing. But delineating or using these differences to justify behavior does not feel appropriate in a work place. If a company could not find many female engineers to hire (I am one) then ok.…

Except they aren't difficult to prove, and this is what really really bothers me. We've got hundreds of thousands of years of innate, biologically formed behaviors that we have because they were evolutionarily advantageous. I'm not saying we should use these differences to discriminate, what I'm saying is that it's pretty easy to observe that they inform behavior and career preference.

Do you have any peer reviewed citations for those claims? If this is as certain as you're assuming, it should be easy to point to the underlying mechanism and evolutionary underpinnings.

Re: The Full 10-Page Anti-Diversity Screed Circulating Internally at Google

#357

Trump didn't get that much support. He lost the popular vote by 2.9M.

49% is still millions of people, i.e. a lot of support. Surely you wouldn't just discount a (large) minority.

Actually, 46.1% of a 55.4% turnout. And yes, I'll dismiss anyone who voted for Trump for whatever reason that they voted for Trump.

Re: The Full 10-Page Anti-Diversity Screed Circulating Internally at Google

#358
post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not surprised by it at all, because I think it's not that they have started to embrace the premises but always did and used them as the foundation for their ideology. It is, to generalize, a group of white, middle class people who were raised in this modern feminist/neo-liberal framework that struggled to translate very academic ideas into a pop culture suitable form. Those poor approximations got mutated by inte…

Could you explicate the last part a little more? I'm interested in understanding the argument but I don't quite follow.

I just commented about this elsewhere, but my take is that some people who previously resisted identity politics finally threw up their hands and decided to accept it, as someone being attacked. So the hypocrisy and contradictions are better understood as protecting their own people from aggression.

As in, the substance of the argument is less important than the parties involved.

As in, "So women have special interest groups and dedicated clubs? Fine. Then it's OK for men to work to get their seat at the table, too." This explains a lot of the eagerness for leaders who know how to "fight". It also explains the lack of caring around ideological hypocrisy. It's like lawyer logic on some level:

"My client was not in town that night. And if he was in town, he did not borrow the mower. And if he did borrow the mower, it was with the consent of the plaintiff. And at any rate, the mower was already broken. And if it wasn't already broken, it broke itself."

...the important part of the argument is the defense of that particular client, not the logical coherence of the narrative.

Re: The Full 10-Page Anti-Diversity Screed Circulating Internally at Google

#359
post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stop mischaracterizing what I'm saying. I'm simply noting that biology is real, and informs a lot of what we do. I'm sorry, but "stories" don't mean anything to me, and again I think it's really strange that people who work in tech, who ostensibly should be more acquainted with data-based decision making, seem to use anecdotes to make what are basically political arguments. I think I'm pretty much done with the Left…

>I'm sorry, but "stories" don't mean anything to me are you human

Yes, and I'm a human who thinks that it's unwise to make policy based on anecdotes. A heretic, I am!

Re: The Full 10-Page Anti-Diversity Screed Circulating Internally at Google

#360
post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intent is vital in the deliverance and sentencing of criminals (as well as severity). You'll find that the U.S.A's EEOC does not label one-off remarks as sexual harassment.[0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_harassment#EEOC_Definit...

There's a difference between "sexual harassment" and "sexual harassment to a level that's criminal". I think it's reasonable to say that something is simultaneously inappropriate at work and not something you should be arrested for.

Is the primary authority's (EEOC) definition of sexual harassment: It is unlawful to harass a person (an applicant or employee) because of that person’s sex. Harassment can include “sexual harassment” or unwelcome sexual advances, requests for sexual favors, and other verbal or physical harassment of a sexual nature.[0]

And is the primary authority's (EEOC) definition of harassment in general: Offensive conduct may include, but is not limited to, offensive jokes, slurs, epithets or name calling, physical assaults or threats, intimidation, ridicule or mockery, insults or put-downs, offensive objects or pictures, and interference with work performance.[1]

Neither of which make the remark in-question constitute of sexual harassment or harassment in-general. I'm sure there is a proper word that accurately describes unwanted remarks about a person's body, but by calling it sexual harassment you are marginalizing the serious cases of sexual harassment that fit under the legal definition.

[0]https://www.eeoc.gov/laws/types/sexual_harassment.cfm [1]https://www.eeoc.gov/laws/types/harassment.cfm

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