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The Full 10-Page Anti-Diversity Screed Circulating Internally at Google

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Re: The Full 10-Page Anti-Diversity Screed Circulating Internally at Google

#301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...others in the face of racism or sexism have to work a hell of a lot more. That's not necessarily true. Everyone has a different story. For all you know, the author was an orphan, was wrongfully convicted of a felony, has a disability, and survived three kinds of cancer.

Yes but this is looking from the micro-POV. The point is to look beyond your own achievements, since in the grand-scale they are really only yours. You should be proud of overcoming your challenges because YOU overcame THEM rather than evaluating them on the merit of their relative differences between other people. This allows you to maintain a sense of self-worth while recognizing that IN GENERAL people like "you" h…

> ...while recognizing that IN GENERAL people like "you" had it "easier" than people like "them".

The problem with this is the legitimacy of the framework for who counts as "like you" and "like them".

If you were born Amish and deaf, you wouldn't see a Manhattan native as being like you at all. But according to the prevailing framework, you're assumed to be more privileged than the Caucasian daughter of a Columbia professor who attended a STEM magnet high school.

It's worth pointing out that generally progressive logic is very pro-self-identification. Except here.

> The micro-scale achievement is not invalidated by the macro-scale injustice.

This point is well taken. Though it misses the point from the article, that people do invalidate and have explicit preferences on the micro scale based on the prevailing framework.

> There doesn't have to be a hierarchy.

Again, I think the objection is that prevailing logic in big corps, including Google apparently, does presume there's hierarchy.

> An insistence on maintaining the status quo, would only maintain what is already a flawed situation for many people.

I haven't seen anyone arguing for the status quo, including the author of the original post. Everyone would love to see more women in tech. The question is what the best way to go about it is and when we know we're done addressing the imbalance.

Re: The Full 10-Page Anti-Diversity Screed Circulating Internally at Google

#302
post #295

Trump didn't get that much support. He lost the popular vote by 2.9M.

Hillary feared losing her mandate by winning the electoral college and losing the popular vote, so she over-campaigned in states like California and New York which would be a lock for any Democrat. She "won" the popular vote but lost the only real race that was being run.

You have an impressive imagination.

Re: The Full 10-Page Anti-Diversity Screed Circulating Internally at Google

#303
post #261
post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Furthermore, commenting directly on the awesomeness of someone else's body is also not sexual. Have you never admired a femal athlete, the way you admire a male athelete? I am bisexual so the analogy doesn't quite work lol. and yes sometimes that can be non-sexual, but a workplace is not a place to make those kinds of comments because it is a VERY thin line and can easily make someone uncomfortable. and 99% of the t…

> 99% of the time men commenting on women's bodies is sexual or has sexual undertones Stereotyping is ok, as long as we do it for the right reasons! > when's the last time you heard a straight man say something like "wow she always has super cool outfits and I love what she does with her makeup" or whatever lol. The same time the same straight men wasn't called sexual harasser for such comment. So you basically say "…

no i made a distinction between commenting on the attractiveness of a woman's body and something that is purely aesthetic and non-sexual (clothing and makeup)

Re: The Full 10-Page Anti-Diversity Screed Circulating Internally at Google

#304

I was talking to coworker who recently transferred from China to the US. He told me that China is will dominate the US because diversity is the greatest US weakness. Kind of shocking because our company is about 1/3 White, Indian and Chinese. But he doesn't see that as diversity. I think that is the answer that he can't see. Once groups accept each other as equals diversity becomes a non-issue. It does take work and…

I appreciate everything you said. It was tough for me studying an engineering degree in college but since then working has been a breath of fresh air. I feel I owe a lot of that to the spirit of professionalism within companies.

It's interesting your Chinese friend said that. I recently found out that unless you are ethnically Chinese, even if you are born in China you aren't a citizen.. correct me if I'm wrong. I feel like a big reason why America will continue to thrive - because it values innovation over particular attributes of the people involved.

More than 1/3 of top tech companies in the US are started by immigrants. http://www.businessinsider.com/top-tech-companies-founded-by...

Re: The Full 10-Page Anti-Diversity Screed Circulating Internally at Google

#306
post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> males preferentially looking at/interacting with mechanical things, females faces/dolls Then why are most politicians male? The problem with this line of reasoning is that it can be used to support almost any status quo because there's no obvious connecting line between childhood preference for "mechanical things" and STEM career preference later on. In particular, modern software development is highly collaborativ…

Because politicians require hyper-competitiveness to reach the top of the political hierarchy. Unfortunately most women would be considered far too agreeable, or conversely gender stereotypes portray females as being out-of-character (bossy) pursuing such cut-throat roles.

I suspect the amount of hatred against the German chancellor Merkel I can hear in casual conversations here in Italy (by males and females equally) is mostly to be attributed to her being perceived as bossy just because she's a woman. An equally bossy man would be normal

Re: The Full 10-Page Anti-Diversity Screed Circulating Internally at Google

#308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For differences in representation to be explainable by something other than sexism --- which has been rampant in other fields, in particular medicine and law, in the past and then enduringly corrected --- you'd need to establish either that CS is somehow fundamentally different from every other hard science, virtually all of which see better (usually: much better) gender parity than CS does. In other words: you'll ne…

> ...other fields, in particular medicine and law Women were literally not allowed to be doctors or lawyers, either by law or by certification boards. Programming has never been a field requiring certification.

At least in law that's not true. There were licensed women lawyers long before it became common for women to be in the profession.

Re: The Full 10-Page Anti-Diversity Screed Circulating Internally at Google

#309
post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hillary feared losing her mandate by winning the electoral college and losing the popular vote, so she over-campaigned in states like California and New York which would be a lock for any Democrat. She "won" the popular vote but lost the only real race that was being run.

You have an impressive imagination.

You have an unimpressive comeback.

Re: The Full 10-Page Anti-Diversity Screed Circulating Internally at Google

#310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For differences in representation to be explainable by something other than sexism --- which has been rampant in other fields, in particular medicine and law, in the past and then enduringly corrected --- you'd need to establish either that CS is somehow fundamentally different from every other hard science, virtually all of which see better (usually: much better) gender parity than CS does. In other words: you'll ne…

Ok, we're in presence of solid research finding a) similar sex differences in toy preferences in monkeys as in human children, and b) sex differences visible within 2 days after birth (references here : https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/rabble-rouser/201707/wh... ) As you justly said, we're in Occam's razor country. So, do you think the 2 observations above are more easily explained by socialization, or biology ?

And? How do you get from the existence of those differences to observed differences in representation? That's a huge conceptual leap.
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