Knowing nothing about the manifesto, the article's frequent use of weasel words makes me want to support to author of the manifesto.
Could you provide some examples of these weasel words?
Google Employee's Anti-Diversity Manifesto Goes 'Internally Viral'
121–130 of 172 posts
Re: Google Employee's Anti-Diversity Manifesto Goes 'Internally Viral'
#122Why does US have these diversity problems? Is it such a huge deal that most women are not interested in technology? Is it such a huge deal that you have to work with a few women? Is it such a huge deal that as a technical woman, you have to work mostly with men? I can tell you, in Belgium, in my experience and what I hear, this is not an issue whatsoever. Most women I worked with actually preferred working in teams o…
This is interesting. I'm a female Electrical Engineer in the United States. Females are obviously a minority in the Engineering teams, but interestingly enough, there are a few older female Engineers I know who came from Eastern Europe after spending 10-15 years doing Engineering there, and said they never had an issue with sexism until they came to the U.S. I'm not sure whether an elaboration by them would indicate…
> I have to say, as an INTJ female, this biology crap is ridiculous.
That's an interesting way to put it. The estimates I've seen (e.g. [1], [2]) have the frequency of INTJs among men significantly higher than the frequency of INTJs among women. If INTJs are more likely to become engineers, then those frequencies predict that there will be more male engineers than female engineers.
[1] https://www.capt.org/mbti-assessment/estimated-frequencies.h...
[2] https://mypersonality.info/personality-types/population-gend...
Re: Google Employee's Anti-Diversity Manifesto Goes 'Internally Viral'
#123Earlier quoted context omitted.
That is exactly the tweet I had in mind. Does it not seem reasonable to you for someone not to want to work on a team where their coworkers think they're less biologically suited to the work, and to hope that HR agrees that they shouldn't be expected to work with such coworkers?
You're correct. However, the author of that tweet went around the wrong way with the manner of her expression. The tweets she put out today come off as combative and hammy. > It actually gives me motivation to leave Google for the first time in years; the only reason why I enjoy Google is our unified networking. > Fact: White men are not marginalized like me in tech. White man: You are racist, my grandpa was a great…
> went around the wrong way with the manner of her expression
So it's only ok for women to be frustrated by systemic stereotyping and marginalization, if-and-only-if she acts like a traditionally oppressed woman in public? Women should just stay in the closet instead of pointing out porblems in the workplace?
> violence against others is not one of them.
What "violence"? What kind of framing or mental gymnastics are you using to interpret any of those posts as "combative" or interpreted as "violence against others"?
Re: Google Employee's Anti-Diversity Manifesto Goes 'Internally Viral'
#124Earlier quoted context omitted.
Do you have any data that suggests that monoculture is bad? My anecdotal evidence suggests that monocultures are the most efficient and effective teams. An important note here is that culture != skin color. Being from the same culture expedites a lot of communication and results in easier/greater team cohesiveness. A study recently came out about diversity in communities (not workplaces). Diversity and civic engageme…
No, I don't have any data. The problem with monoculture, by the way, is that you might end up discarding somebody for "wrong culture fit" rather than actual skills. And that's something I'd like to avoid.
That's only a problem if there's a shortage of people with applicable skills, which doesn't apply to the vast majority of businesses. All other things being equal, a "good culture fit" should make a better member of the team. If monoculture improves team effectiveness, then a better culture fit is likely even worth paying a price premium.
Re: Google Employee's Anti-Diversity Manifesto Goes 'Internally Viral'
#125Earlier quoted context omitted.
You're correct. However, the author of that tweet went around the wrong way with the manner of her expression. The tweets she put out today come off as combative and hammy. > It actually gives me motivation to leave Google for the first time in years; the only reason why I enjoy Google is our unified networking. > Fact: White men are not marginalized like me in tech. White man: You are racist, my grandpa was a great…
> went around the wrong way with the manner of her expression So it's only ok for women to be frustrated by systemic stereotyping and marginalization, if-and-only-if she acts like a traditionally oppressed woman in public? Women should just stay in the closet instead of pointing out porblems in the workplace? > violence against others is not one of them. What "violence"? What kind of framing or mental gymnastics are…
>What "violence"? What kind of framing or mental gymnastics are you using to interpret any of those posts as "combative" or interpreted as "violence against others"?
The same violence you are imposing upon on me with your words. Albeit these are in the realm of microagressions, it is violence nonetheless. A more modern violence.
Throwing pejoratives at people is verbal violence: What kind of framing or mental gymnastics...
As is responding with loaded questions, like: Women should just stay in the closet instead of pointing out problems in the workplace? This is intellectually dishonest and does more to insight altercation than have an informed and open discussion.
Coincidentally, these are not too far off from the author's comments.
Re: Google Employee's Anti-Diversity Manifesto Goes 'Internally Viral'
#126Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is interesting. I'm a female Electrical Engineer in the United States. Females are obviously a minority in the Engineering teams, but interestingly enough, there are a few older female Engineers I know who came from Eastern Europe after spending 10-15 years doing Engineering there, and said they never had an issue with sexism until they came to the U.S. I'm not sure whether an elaboration by them would indicate…
> I have to say, as an INTJ female, this biology crap is ridiculous. That's an interesting way to put it. The estimates I've seen (e.g. [1], [2]) have the frequency of INTJs among men significantly higher than the frequency of INTJs among women. If INTJs are more likely to become engineers, then those frequencies predict that there will be more male engineers than female engineers. [1] https://www.capt.org/mbti-asses…
As far as I can see, those statistics are from the US. Which means there might be more to this INTJ-engineer relationship beyond sex. Such as cultural expectations that an engineer is an introvert, which may not be true.
I don't remember the study, but apparently in former communist countries, while gender roles are very strong, women were expected to work in factories along side men for a very long time.
Which is probably why you have a relatively more balanced tech workforce there today vs the West.
Re: Google Employee's Anti-Diversity Manifesto Goes 'Internally Viral'
#127Here it is for those who wish to read it (which should be everyone who voiced an opinion on it): http://gizmodo.com/exclusive-heres-the-full-10-page-anti-div... Edit: two paragraphs in and it's making lots of well reasoned points. Why the outrage? And why the outrage before the majority of people actually read the thing? Serves to prove the authors point.
The first few paragraphs were the only reasonable parts of the entire document. It quickly goes off the rails. >Edit: two paragraphs in and it's making lots of well reasoned points. Why the outrage? And why the outrage before the majority of people actually read the thing? Ironic... did you actually read the thing? Past the first "two paragraphs," anyway?
The personality trait section appears to at least be consistent with current findings[1]. I see a lot of comments on the article berating the "De-emphasize empathy" section as well, but it's starting to become clear empathy has a lot of bugs in it. Paul Bloom advocates for compassion instead of empathy[2].
There's definitely assumptions in the article e.g. Men (may) prefer coding due to the average innate preference of things vs people (and then vice versa for women)and the belief programs exclusive to minorities due more harm than good, but outside of those this seems like a fairly well researched document that, for better or worse, has a dissenting opinion from the group.
[1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3826203/ [2] https://www.amazon.com/Against-Empathy-Case-Rational-Compass...
Re: Google Employee's Anti-Diversity Manifesto Goes 'Internally Viral'
#128Why does US have these diversity problems? Is it such a huge deal that most women are not interested in technology? Is it such a huge deal that you have to work with a few women? Is it such a huge deal that as a technical woman, you have to work mostly with men? I can tell you, in Belgium, in my experience and what I hear, this is not an issue whatsoever. Most women I worked with actually preferred working in teams o…
> Most women I worked with actually preferred working in teams of mainly men. Have you considered survival bias? The women that were bothered would have left those conditions in greater numbers. The problem in not caring about this statistical filtering is that it creates a blind spot for your company. It is harder to empathize with the unknown. When you build products that extend the world's social experience, this…
Do you have evidence for that? Are there really solid cases where, say, 20% female team handled certain features far better than a 5% female team, due to their gender?
I see this implicit assumption everywhere that diversity comes up, yet at best I've only seen studies indicating better workplace environment or higher productivity on mixed teams. But never anything in detail.
And why does diversity fail so hard when it comes to physical activities?
Re: Google Employee's Anti-Diversity Manifesto Goes 'Internally Viral'
#129I'd really like to see this document as a whole before judging. By the way, I think that being really open means listening to opinions without "rage quitting" for holding an unpopular opinion, or calling him a "racist" or "white male supremacy supporter", which is a way to turn down an argument whatever its merit is. Is the document's author a jerk? Let's explain that to him, and maybe shame him on a data-driven basi…
Dragging this to public and trying to shame the person is absolutely the wrong move. They're just proving his point that these people are not open to rigorous discussions. The perfect example is Milo. Every time he gets kicked out of a campus, his point gets proven. But almost every time I've seen someone sit down with him and debate his flawed arguments, he got pretty much proven wrong on most of them.
how much energy are we supposed to devote to sitting down with and debating people like Milo? that works out well for him because he has nothing else to do with his time; most people don't have the luxury.
Re: Google Employee's Anti-Diversity Manifesto Goes 'Internally Viral'
#130Google is substantially located in the Bay Area. Of course they hate ideological diversity, in practice if not in principle. It is an attitude common in their workforce. This is a tendentious statement, so I will relate my own experience. Once upon a time I was working in California, at a tiny startup, and was reading some election results from "back home" in North Carolina, which had just passed Amendment One by abo…
I'm not sure he's factually wrong. It looks like he's referring to the nordic studies which were covered by The Economist and Freakanomics.