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Google Employee's Anti-Diversity Manifesto Goes 'Internally Viral'

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Re: Google Employee's Anti-Diversity Manifesto Goes 'Internally Viral'

#111

Post by cbhl »

pandaman wrote: post #99
throwaway2812 wrote: post #65

I've read the doc. At first skim, I thought it was going to be a reasonable "stop the echochamber" style doc, that points out issues with over-loving diversity without thinking about the impact of it, and that decries the strong-left culture at Google that can be alienating to right-leaning employees. But in reality, dude went full /r/TheRedPill and The_Donald on this. I think the best description I heard of the doc…

Having observed the fall of the USSR it's nothing unusual to me. When people are not comfortable with an oppressive regime they keep their moderate opinions to themselves. Voicing any opinion contrary to the Party line is dangerous no matter how extreme or moderate it is. So all dissenting opinions you are going to hear in public will be coming from extremists (e.g. "Have a Nuremberg-type tribunal for the Party's chi…

Are you saying that this is the start of a "white male rebellion" inside silicon valley?

Re: Google Employee's Anti-Diversity Manifesto Goes 'Internally Viral'

#112

Post by denzil_correa »

usmeteora wrote: post #77
koonsolo wrote: post #19

Why does US have these diversity problems? Is it such a huge deal that most women are not interested in technology? Is it such a huge deal that you have to work with a few women? Is it such a huge deal that as a technical woman, you have to work mostly with men? I can tell you, in Belgium, in my experience and what I hear, this is not an issue whatsoever. Most women I worked with actually preferred working in teams o…

This is interesting. I'm a female Electrical Engineer in the United States. Females are obviously a minority in the Engineering teams, but interestingly enough, there are a few older female Engineers I know who came from Eastern Europe after spending 10-15 years doing Engineering there, and said they never had an issue with sexism until they came to the U.S. I'm not sure whether an elaboration by them would indicate…

> Females are obviously a minority in the Engineering teams, but interestingly enough, there are a few older female Engineers I know who came from Eastern Europe after spending 10-15 years doing Engineering there, and said they never had an issue with sexism until they came to the U.S.

Re: Eastern Europe.

You can thank communist regimes for more female workers in technology.

http://www.zdnet.com/article/women-in-tech-why-bulgaria-and-...

Re: Google Employee's Anti-Diversity Manifesto Goes 'Internally Viral'

#113

Post by laughinghan »

stagbeetle wrote: post #106
laughinghan wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You and GP don't cite any commenter in particular, but none of the tweets mentioned in the article strike me as trying to force HR or blackmail anyone to do anything. They seem to me like they're saying they don't want to work somewhere their teammates think they're biologically inferior, but they're hoping that HR will ensure that people who think so don't stay on the team.

Here you go: https://twitter.com/rakyll/status/893287112732291072 It was quoted in the main story.

That is exactly the tweet I had in mind. Does it not seem reasonable to you for someone not to want to work on a team where their coworkers think they're less biologically suited to the work, and to hope that HR agrees that they shouldn't be expected to work with such coworkers?

Re: Google Employee's Anti-Diversity Manifesto Goes 'Internally Viral'

#114

Post by denzil_correa »

fvdessen wrote: post #44
ryderm wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is it such a huge deal that most women are not interested in technology? If this is because they have been systematically discriminated against in tech and primed at a young age with BS like "cars are for boys and dolls are for girls" then yes, absolutely this is a huge deal. If it just so happened that they were not interested because they don't have the "technology gene" then this would not be a big deal, but tha…

> all the evidence points to the former. There is an interesting documentary called "The Norway Paradox"[1] that explores why do we see a much higher rate of gender segregation in developed countries. The thesis the documentary advances is that there are indeed innate differences between the sexes, and with higher freedom that can be found in advanced societies, the people are freer to choose a job that fits their in…

The question then I would like to pose is : Are these innate tendencies genetic or are they due to social conditioning?

Re: Google Employee's Anti-Diversity Manifesto Goes 'Internally Viral'

#115

Post by stagbeetle »

laughinghan wrote: post #113
stagbeetle wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here you go: https://twitter.com/rakyll/status/893287112732291072 It was quoted in the main story.

That is exactly the tweet I had in mind. Does it not seem reasonable to you for someone not to want to work on a team where their coworkers think they're less biologically suited to the work, and to hope that HR agrees that they shouldn't be expected to work with such coworkers?

You're correct. However, the author of that tweet went around the wrong way with the manner of her expression.

The tweets she put out today come off as combative and hammy.

>It actually gives me motivation to leave Google for the first time in years; the only reason why I enjoy Google is our unified networking.

>Fact: White men are not marginalized like me in tech. White man: You are racist, my grandpa was a great man. You are this relevant.

>Dear white men who thinks they are marginalized, my single eye lash is more marginalized in tech than all of you.

There are proper ways to voice one's concern, but violence against others is not one of them.

Re: Google Employee's Anti-Diversity Manifesto Goes 'Internally Viral'

#116

Post by [deleted] »

factsaresacred wrote: post #108

Here it is for those who wish to read it (which should be everyone who voiced an opinion on it): http://gizmodo.com/exclusive-heres-the-full-10-page-anti-div... Edit: two paragraphs in and it's making lots of well reasoned points. Why the outrage? And why the outrage before the majority of people actually read the thing? Serves to prove the authors point.

[deleted]

Re: Google Employee's Anti-Diversity Manifesto Goes 'Internally Viral'

#117

Post by krrrh »

fvdessen wrote: post #44
ryderm wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is it such a huge deal that most women are not interested in technology? If this is because they have been systematically discriminated against in tech and primed at a young age with BS like "cars are for boys and dolls are for girls" then yes, absolutely this is a huge deal. If it just so happened that they were not interested because they don't have the "technology gene" then this would not be a big deal, but tha…

> all the evidence points to the former. There is an interesting documentary called "The Norway Paradox"[1] that explores why do we see a much higher rate of gender segregation in developed countries. The thesis the documentary advances is that there are indeed innate differences between the sexes, and with higher freedom that can be found in advanced societies, the people are freer to choose a job that fits their in…

Another video worth watching on this subject is the debate between Steven Pinker and Elizabeth Spelke on The Science of Gender & Science[1] which was held in the wake of the Larry Summers controversy at Harvard in 2005. They both make many good points, and it is clear that while discrimination exists, it is probably not adequate to explain outcomes which are aligned with innate preferences and distribution of specific skills.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bTKRkmwtGY

Re: Google Employee's Anti-Diversity Manifesto Goes 'Internally Viral'

#118

Post by vcjohnson »

denzil_correa wrote: post #114
fvdessen wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> all the evidence points to the former. There is an interesting documentary called "The Norway Paradox"[1] that explores why do we see a much higher rate of gender segregation in developed countries. The thesis the documentary advances is that there are indeed innate differences between the sexes, and with higher freedom that can be found in advanced societies, the people are freer to choose a job that fits their in…

The question then I would like to pose is : Are these innate tendencies genetic or are they due to social conditioning?

That question appears to be addressed in the post to which you are responding. I won't be as bold as some to lay causation purely on biological differences, maybe there could be some factor we're not accounting for on why socially flattened societies tend to have larger exaggerations in traditional gender roles. However, if your policy platform wants to push equality of outcome for career paths on the sexes then this deviation from expectation should be disconcerting.

Re: Google Employee's Anti-Diversity Manifesto Goes 'Internally Viral'

#119

Post by plexicle »

factsaresacred wrote: post #108

Here it is for those who wish to read it (which should be everyone who voiced an opinion on it): http://gizmodo.com/exclusive-heres-the-full-10-page-anti-div... Edit: two paragraphs in and it's making lots of well reasoned points. Why the outrage? And why the outrage before the majority of people actually read the thing? Serves to prove the authors point.

The first few paragraphs were the only reasonable parts of the entire document. It quickly goes off the rails.

>Edit: two paragraphs in and it's making lots of well reasoned points. Why the outrage? And why the outrage before the majority of people actually read the thing?

Ironic... did you actually read the thing? Past the first "two paragraphs," anyway?

Re: Google Employee's Anti-Diversity Manifesto Goes 'Internally Viral'

#120

Post by drdeadringer »

koonsolo wrote: post #19

Why does US have these diversity problems? Is it such a huge deal that most women are not interested in technology? Is it such a huge deal that you have to work with a few women? Is it such a huge deal that as a technical woman, you have to work mostly with men? I can tell you, in Belgium, in my experience and what I hear, this is not an issue whatsoever. Most women I worked with actually preferred working in teams o…

You may be interested in looking over the Society Of Women Engineers for some of your questions.
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