Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud • Hacker News Board

Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#481

Post by JackFr » Sat, Aug 05, 2017, 12:35 AM UTC

SilasX wrote: post #358

JackFr wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People shouldn't be able to be convicted because they're assholes (even if they are). He wasn't convicted because he was an asshole. He was convicted because he broke the law. I think the fact that he was acquitted on 2 of the 5 counts is evidence that the jury made a determination based on facts, rather than their feeling towards him. That being said, in a trial in the US, the judge applies the law, and the jury d…

>He wasn't convicted because he was an asshole. He was convicted because he broke the law. Well, yes and no. They only bothered looking for his other crimes and prosecuting his because he became unpopular. That's disturbing. What if I'm the victim of financial crimes by someone who didn't piss of Congress and the public? Where's my justice?

Well, maybe.

Shkreli was first investigated by the SEC in 2003, and had two multimillion dollar judgements against his two bankrupt hedge funds for failing to cover puts and short sales.

So when he shows up running a new company, it's not unimaginable that he was on some people's radar.

Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#482

Post by njharman » Sat, Aug 05, 2017, 12:36 AM UTC

vogt wrote: post #440

emodendroket wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, that's true, but the article seems to suggest that his brash persona/public conduct made it hard for him to win the case.

Probably, but I hope we haven't entered a world where we lock people up based on not liking their tone or attitude.

Try taking a attitude with a judge and see how much Contempt of Court you can rack up.

In modern times we've arrested plenty of performers, Lenny Bruce, various rock musicians for being "lewd" or other retarded reasons. It only gets worse farther back you go.

As a society we love to lock up those who make us feel uncomfortable or are "weird".

Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#483

Post by nl » Sat, Aug 05, 2017, 12:38 AM UTC

cvwright wrote: post #462

rayiner wrote: post #459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Example?

Aaron Swartz?

All the changes there were ridiculous, but easily provable.

Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#484

Post by zo1 » Sat, Aug 05, 2017, 12:41 AM UTC

emodendroket wrote: post #444

zo1 wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seemingly free and "just" governments have done much more "disruptive" things in the past, so there is precedent. E.g. Conscription and mandatory military training. Edit: Typo.

So what? Does that make it a good idea?

I'm a Libertarian, so I'd say No. But my point was that government has in the past done things that have been highly disruptive to their citizens' time.

Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

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Post by davewritescode » Sat, Aug 05, 2017, 12:42 AM UTC

gizmo wrote: post #178

charlesdm wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't followed everything closely, but did anyone lose money in the end?

Merrill Lynch lost millions. https://www.cnbc.com/2017/07/05/merrill-lynch-salesman-descr...

The difference is that they actually told their investors what happened instead of lying and bringing in new investors to help cover the losses.

Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#486

Post by njharman » Sat, Aug 05, 2017, 12:45 AM UTC

blahblah3 wrote: post #115

huac wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, everybody came out okay - Shkreli really made his investors a lot of money! Yeah, he lied, but he did some incredible work: typical fraudsters take your money and run - he doesn't fit that mold. Honestly, the issue was that he's an utter asshole, including to his investors. Investors are willing to put with a lot if you triple their money, but Shkreli managed to cross that line. That made him an easy target f…

Just because his investors made money doesn't excuse him. Suppose you lent 10,000 to a friend and the friend promised to return it within a year. A year later, your friend doesn't pay you back and makes a bunch of excuses. Instead, he takes the 5,000 he has left to the casino, gambles it on the roulette wheel and by luck manages to turn that into 30,000 and pays you back 1.5 years later. I don't think you would be ha…

I would be perfectly happy to get more than my 10,000 back (like his investors did) late vs getting less or none back ever.

I'd be joyous if the return was better than I could expect to make otherwise, say > 10-20%.

Investments are risky. They are not automatic.

What I wouldn't be happy about is if I was lied to about the risk of an investment. That is closer to what this case is about. The money gained or lost doesn't really matter.

Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#487

Post by njharman » Sat, Aug 05, 2017, 12:48 AM UTC

discombobulate wrote: post #77

I quite like Martin. I talked to him a few time on YouTube, whilst he was live streaming. He's whip-smart & knowledgeable. He does, however, have a couple of major flaws. 1) He trolls. Hard. 2) It seems he lies. Which I picked up from a previous news article. (He claimed to have ~$50mm under management @ his previous hedge fund. It was more like $1.6mm. Something like that). I can forgive the trolling. It's over the…

> Edit: I don't know why I'm being downvoted.

Don't whine about the Internet. Seriously, waste of time and beneath anyone with a modicum of confidence. Also it earns you downvotes.

Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#488

Post by davidreiss » Sat, Aug 05, 2017, 12:49 AM UTC

davewritescode wrote: post #485

gizmo wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Merrill Lynch lost millions. https://www.cnbc.com/2017/07/05/merrill-lynch-salesman-descr...

The difference is that they actually told their investors what happened instead of lying and bringing in new investors to help cover the losses.

Actually, a bunch of wall street, banking, etc all said the state of the economy was fine, there was no housing bubble, etc all on national TV before the markets collapsed. None of them went to jail.

Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#489

Post by Alaura » Sat, Aug 05, 2017, 12:51 AM UTC

Sound's like a good thing tho, i mean we have seen his history and his past, a lot of things kinda conspired to see this coming in the end.

Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#490

Post by davewritescode » Sat, Aug 05, 2017, 12:54 AM UTC

MichaelGG wrote: post #103

wfunction wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Okay, I'll bite. Why do you think he's human garbage. Obtaining a license just to increase a drug's price from $13.50 to $750 for no apparent reason other than greed isn't enough for you?

And what's wrong with that? Be upset that the FDA only approved one company to make the drug. And it's not like anyone was hurt. Overall, insurers ended up paying a bit more (drugs are only 10-15% of US health care costs, and very few people need Daraprim). Big deal. If more people did this, then the system would get this issue addressed, maybe. On top of that, he said he was investing the profits into researching be…

It came out in congressional testimony that they were completely misrepresenting how they were re-investing profits. Employees were pilfering profits with 100% raises, massive bonuses and lavish parties. Very little if anything was going back into R&D.

If you want to make a profit and drink champagne on yachts that's totally fine, just don't go around telling everyone that you're pouring those profits back into research.