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Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

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Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#101

Post by flipp3r »

hellofunk wrote: post #85
flipp3r wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not true. The drug was given away for free to people who could not afford it. Are there any cases of what you're saying actually happening?

Tim Horn of the Treatment Action Group and Carlos del Rio of the HIV Medicine Association, said [Shkreli's] actions were insufficient, given that patients initially treated for days at a hospital typically have to continue the treatment for weeks or months after leaving. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Shkreli

They said "Del Rio noted that while hospitals treat many patients initially, most are then treated at home for a couple of months, so the lower hospital price doesn’t help."

This just states that people at home, after being treated at a hospital, still need the medicine. Hospitals get 50% off, which is what your unrelated statement is about.

The medicine is a cure, you need to go through about 100 pills of it. The cost of people at home is paid by insurance. This has nothing to do with the medicine being available literally for free if you contact the company.

Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#102

Post by [deleted] »

Sangermaine wrote: post #55
kbenson wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interestingly, his fraud seems to fall into two categories. Lying about his fund's bonafides and status on one side, and working hard to make sure those same investors got what they were expecting by founding a company, making it successful and paying them out from the profits. It sounds like he definitely lied to investors, but he apparently didn't intend to steal their money, and took pains to make sure he did not…

Are you kidding? He's human garbage, let him rot. It's astounding how people are being taken in by this con man.

[deleted]

Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#103

Post by MichaelGG »

wfunction wrote: post #78
kbenson wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, I'll bite. Why do you think he's human garbage? You felt strongly enough to reply, maybe you can muster the effort to explain why you think that?

> Okay, I'll bite. Why do you think he's human garbage. Obtaining a license just to increase a drug's price from $13.50 to $750 for no apparent reason other than greed isn't enough for you?

And what's wrong with that? Be upset that the FDA only approved one company to make the drug.

And it's not like anyone was hurt. Overall, insurers ended up paying a bit more (drugs are only 10-15% of US health care costs, and very few people need Daraprim). Big deal. If more people did this, then the system would get this issue addressed, maybe.

On top of that, he said he was investing the profits into researching better drugs, though of course that's not a requirement.

Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#104

Post by lukaslalinsky »

AJRF wrote: post #44
hellofunk wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One could argue that he hurt a lot of sick people by making it very difficult or impossible for them to afford the hundreds of percent price increases he laid upon the drugs he took control over. Edit: [0] "... it says that the drug is available for free to people with deep financial need. But Dr. Aberg has watched her patients have to "jump through the hoops" to get it. Patients have to prove both financial need and…

He raised the price of Daraprim in order to fund R&D to find alternative treatments as Daraprim caused some nasty side effects. It was free to any individual who wished to obtain it, with Martin footing the bill. The side effect of the price hike was the insurance companies has to pay more, not individuals. So no, one couldn't argue he hurt a lot of sick people.

Isn't this an extreme example of the core problem why the US health system is so expensive? Even you are suggesting that an increased price is fine if it's the insurance companies paying the money.

Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#105

Post by Unbeliever69 »

hellofunk wrote: post #25
cloakandswagger wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you elaborate? Who did Shkreli hurt here and how?

One could argue that he hurt a lot of sick people by making it very difficult or impossible for them to afford the hundreds of percent price increases he laid upon the drugs he took control over. Edit: [0] "... it says that the drug is available for free to people with deep financial need. But Dr. Aberg has watched her patients have to "jump through the hoops" to get it. Patients have to prove both financial need and…

And this comment is the reason why Trump was elected president; that we believe everything we hear without doing our own due diligence.

Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#106

Post by mindfulplay »

hood_syntax wrote: post #14
sqeaky wrote: post #7

Putting people like Shkreli into prison for a long time is vital to the long term stability of society. I wish money didn't buy options to avoid prison and I wish that people with his behaviors didn't so often accrue large amounts of money.

That would be great if he wasn't one of many, and if nothing of significance will come from this ruling (it won't). He's just a convenient target that can be pointed to and said of "Look, aren't we doing our job?" when the truth is nothing will change in the long run.

I don't see anyone riling against the strongarming lobby of the big fraud pharma. This dude just seems more like a character from Big Lebowski or The Wire to me than someone say from big pharma who reaps billions by lobbying for sustaining their own monopolistic behavior....

Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#107

Post by charlesdm »

kbenson wrote: post #92
charlesdm wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't followed everything closely, but did anyone lose money in the end?

The NY Times article[1] presented by an early top level comment implies that no, they didn't. The investors who invested all made money — by the defense’s tally, more than triple what they invested. 1: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/04/business/dealbook/martin-...

I don't particularly like the guy, but I do believe him to be pretty smart. How can he be convicted of fraud if he got them a 3x return?

Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#108

Post by wfunction »

kbenson wrote: post #86
wfunction wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Okay, I'll bite. Why do you think he's human garbage. Obtaining a license just to increase a drug's price from $13.50 to $750 for no apparent reason other than greed isn't enough for you?

> Obtaining a license just to increase a drug's price from $13.50 to $750 for no apparent reason other than greed isn't enough for you? This case isn't about that. Are you suggesting we should convict and punish people on trial for one crime because we don't like their past activities and behaviors? Even if those other behaviors were illegal, they should be considered during a separate trial that's actually pertainin…

> This case isn't about that.

That wasn't your question, was it? You asked why he's human garbage, I explained why. I wasn't defending or attacking this case, I was explaining why some think he is human garbage.

Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#109

Post by pyroinferno »

hellofunk wrote: post #87
pyroinferno wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. The OP has nothing to do with the price hikes, so your argument might have been true if it was actually addressing a relevant topic 2. It's even arguable that his price hikes hurt anyone other than already rich insurance monopolies. The insurance companies would have had to cover the prices, and any people without insurance could have received the drug for free from their company. And of course the higher profits…

> It's even arguable that his price hikes hurt anyone other than already rich insurance monopolies It is a uniquely American perspective to assume that insurance companies are some abstracted layer of infinite money that individual people needn't worry about. But then, everyone complains about insurance premiums and they wonder why they can't be lower. What irony.

You think raising the price for a drug only used by about 2000 people raised insurance premiums at all?

It's amazing how Europeans expect Pharmaceutical companies to invest R&D into rarely used drugs when they can't make a profit.

Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#110

Post by Sangermaine »

enschlnd wrote: post #83
Sangermaine wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you kidding? He's human garbage, let him rot. It's astounding how people are being taken in by this con man.

He's not kidding. He's not human garbage. It's not astounding that different people have different opinions at all. Your post suggests that you're very emotionally attached to your opinion, which is not good. Nor takes into consideration some basic premises which are necessary for people to understand one another.

>He's not human garbage.

Yeah, but he is.

Spare me the faux "logically objective" pose. There is a reason he's known as the "most hated man in America". His actions have earned him this reputation.

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