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Inside Patreon, the economic engine of internet culture

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Re: Inside Patreon, the economic engine of internet culture

#221

Post by LeifCarrotson »

patcon wrote: post #18
drewg123 wrote: post #16

Unless I'm missing something, they seem to only have a monthly contribution model. There are many times where I find a content creator helpful (for example a video tutorial on how to fix my broken washing machine), and I'd like to reward them. But I don't want to do it monthly, as I'll probably never watch another thing from them. So I'd like to be able to easily leave a one-time tip. Can Patreon do this, and it's ju…

Hate to sound pessimistic to your well-intentioned suggestion, but if someone prefers not to support a creator monthly/regularly, then they are unfortunately choosing not to support them sustainably. I feel strongly that to ask for one-off giving is to ask for a badly designed system. People can't dedicate their output to creating value for you when they're living off a tip-jar. Consistency is the key to backgroundin…

Many kinds of businesses work just fine on the "pay it once" model. You produce a pair of shoes, I buy that pair of shoes, and we are done. This classic, standard model doesn't have to be unsustainable.

In particular, look at the gig economy. Thousands of freelance programmers, designers, artists, and tradesmen are making a living through one-time invoices.

I may be an outlier, as I don't subscribe to much of anything on a recurring basis except Netflix and Google Apps. In the real world, I have a mortgage, not rent, and I own my car, I don't lease it.

And to GP: Patreon does give you a "guilt trip" asking for a cause for your cancellation of a monthly subscription immediately after donating, but it's easy and it works.

Re: Inside Patreon, the economic engine of internet culture

#222

Post by ilugaslifk »

needz wrote: post #119
eropple wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The alt-right is not "middle-of-the-road conservative". The alt-right is literal-not-figurative fascism with memes and, occasionally, good dress sense. If you consider white supremacists (oh, sorry, white nationalists (oh, sorry, ethno-nationalists )) to be "middle of the road conservatives," there is a profoundly deeper problem in your calculus.

> The alt-right is literal-not-figurative fascism What gives you this impression?

There's a lot of confusion out there due to a relatively brief appropriation of the term "alt-right" by a political tendency that is now more commonly termed "alt-lite".

https://www.google.com/search?q=alt+right+lite

The dividing line that's emerged is "civic nationalism" (alt-lite) vs "ethnic nationalism" (alt-right)

ie: anybody can be an American provided they adopt the right values and behave as an American, vs only white people can be American and everybody who is not white (+ jews) needs to be made to leave.

Needless to say, the latter tendency is especially packed with literally textbook fascism.

https://www.adl.org/education/resources/backgrounders/from-a...

Re: Inside Patreon, the economic engine of internet culture

#223

Post by s73ver »

dna_polymerase wrote: post #142
bryanlarsen wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They kicked off 8chan but kept The Sarkeesian Effect so in my opinion they've got it exactly right. They keep up pretty nasty stuff in the name of free speech, but don't let you cross the line into doxing and the like. I much prefer having sensible humans at the helm than have something purely anonymous.

There is no "getting it right" in free speech. Either you allow free speech or you don't, if you are keeping one controversial thing but kick out the other you gave up on free speech. You can't kick someone out because you think its right and claim allowing free spech.

Sure there is. Free speech doesn't give you an excuse to behave terribly, such as doxxing and the like.

Re: Inside Patreon, the economic engine of internet culture

#224

Post by s73ver »

syshum wrote: post #198
ngold wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Patreon is not a government body. If you host a bake sale open to everyone in your house, you can and should kick out the screaming lunatics that keep making a mess. The screaming lunatics are free to host their own bake sale at their house.

>>Patreon is not a government body. Ok, and. Do you believe only governments are a threat to free speech? Free Speech is a concept that every person, every company, every government should work to up hold. While governments can and have been the source of censorship, that is not the only source. Today free speech is under massive assault not by Government but by Society at large, society it seems have lost all respec…

Maybe Free Speech wouldn't be under such an assault if people weren't saying that you have to allow everything, including harassment and doxxing, to not be "assaulting free speech".

Not to mention that doxxing and harassment are not free speech in the first place.

Re: Inside Patreon, the economic engine of internet culture

#225

Post by cholantesh »

vetinari wrote: post #179
chrisoverzero wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sorry, but "we don't need evidence, our imagination is enough" is not anywhere near "very reasonable". The video literally shows clips of behavior. The common theme of the video is “manifest observable behavior”. The video explains how actions, not speech, are what broke the terms of service. I really recommend you watch it. (Odd use of quotation marks – you directly quoted me, but completely made up what Patreon s…

> The video literally shows clips of behavior. I see you are new to the game of presenting video clips out of context and manipulating the audience. > The common theme of the video is “manifest observable behavior”. The video explains how actions, not speech, are what broke the terms of service. I really recommend you watch it. (Odd use of quotation marks – you directly quoted me, but completely made up what Patreon…

>I see you are new to the game of presenting video clips out of context and manipulating the audience.

This is a meaningless accusation without evidence.

Re: Inside Patreon, the economic engine of internet culture

#226

Post by blhack »

Jerry2 wrote: post #212

How long before Youtube bans private videos and destroys Pateron's business?

I can't imagine that they would do that. At the very least if they did, they would gate it for a few $$/mo. Make it a feature for red users only or something.

Re: Inside Patreon, the economic engine of internet culture

#227

Post by s73ver »

LeifCarrotson wrote: post #221
patcon wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hate to sound pessimistic to your well-intentioned suggestion, but if someone prefers not to support a creator monthly/regularly, then they are unfortunately choosing not to support them sustainably. I feel strongly that to ask for one-off giving is to ask for a badly designed system. People can't dedicate their output to creating value for you when they're living off a tip-jar. Consistency is the key to backgroundin…

Many kinds of businesses work just fine on the "pay it once" model. You produce a pair of shoes, I buy that pair of shoes, and we are done. This classic, standard model doesn't have to be unsustainable. In particular, look at the gig economy. Thousands of freelance programmers, designers, artists, and tradesmen are making a living through one-time invoices. I may be an outlier, as I don't subscribe to much of anythin…

Right, but you don't get that pair of shoes unless you pay. We've tried with doing things like, "You won't get to watch that video or read that article unless you pay." It doesn't work.

Re: Inside Patreon, the economic engine of internet culture

#228

Post by stcredzero »

pillowkusis wrote: post #7

I have seen so many content creators go full time and create awesome work because Patreon gives them a format to incentivize their followers to pay them. The economics are beautiful — turns out just 1,000 people (a pittance on internet mass media websites) donating $5 a month will totally change the way you run your life. And even better, these artists are independent in a way no artist has ever been before. You’re n…

I am totally convinced Patreon (or the patreon model) is the future of content creation. Ethical, decentralized, economically viable flourishing of the arts.

Scott McCloud called this in the early 2000's. (Then the Penny Arcade guys lambasted him and his ideas.)

http://scottmccloud.com/3-home/essays/2003-09-micros/micros....

Re: Inside Patreon, the economic engine of internet culture

#229

Post by azernik »

dna_polymerase wrote: post #142
bryanlarsen wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They kicked off 8chan but kept The Sarkeesian Effect so in my opinion they've got it exactly right. They keep up pretty nasty stuff in the name of free speech, but don't let you cross the line into doxing and the like. I much prefer having sensible humans at the helm than have something purely anonymous.

There is no "getting it right" in free speech. Either you allow free speech or you don't, if you are keeping one controversial thing but kick out the other you gave up on free speech. You can't kick someone out because you think its right and claim allowing free spech.

That is a very US-centric view of free speech. In many other (developed, democratic) countries, a lot of the shit 8chan does would be viewed as incitement to violence, hate speech, and/or invasion of privacy. The absolutist conception of free speech in the US is an outlier.

Re: Inside Patreon, the economic engine of internet culture

#230

Post by endgame »

ngold wrote: post #190
dna_polymerase wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no "getting it right" in free speech. Either you allow free speech or you don't, if you are keeping one controversial thing but kick out the other you gave up on free speech. You can't kick someone out because you think its right and claim allowing free spech.

Patreon is not a government body. If you host a bake sale open to everyone in your house, you can and should kick out the screaming lunatics that keep making a mess. The screaming lunatics are free to host their own bake sale at their house.

That argument gets increasingly flimsy when all public spaces that matter are owned by private corporations, both online and off.

The quotes from Alexander Hamilton and J.S. Mill in the below link sums it up well, IMHO: http://sealedabstract.com/rants/re-xkcd-1357-free-speech/

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