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Inside Patreon, the economic engine of internet culture

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Re: Inside Patreon, the economic engine of internet culture

#181

Post by vetinari »

phry wrote: post #175

Laura Southern literally advocates for the death of migrants, pardon me for not giving a fuck about her losing an income stream.

> Laura Southern literally advocates for the death of migrants, pardon me for not giving a fuck about her losing an income stream.

That's huge misinterpretation. What they wouldn't do is to ferry the migrants from Libyan coast to Italy. They would return them back to Libya.

That's not advocating the death of migrants. That's exactly what the coast guard of Italy should be doing!

Re: Inside Patreon, the economic engine of internet culture

#182

Post by problems »

quxbar wrote: post #154
dna_polymerase wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no "getting it right" in free speech. Either you allow free speech or you don't, if you are keeping one controversial thing but kick out the other you gave up on free speech. You can't kick someone out because you think its right and claim allowing free spech.

"People have indeed falsely shouted "Fire!" in crowded public venues and caused panics on numerous occasions, such as at the Royal Surrey Gardens Music Hall of London in 1856, a theater in New York's Harlem neighborhood in 1884,[1] and in the Italian Hall disaster of 1913, which left 73 dead. In the Shiloh Baptist Church disaster of 1902, over 100 people died when "fight" was misheard as "fire" in a crowded church ca…

And that has absolutely nothing to do with political speech.

You should probably read into the history on that one too...

https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/11/its-tim...

Re: Inside Patreon, the economic engine of internet culture

#183

Post by jorvi »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #57
PKop wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen Patreon kicking people off their platform for political reasons, so it is not decentralized, though certainly more so than alternatives existing before Patreon. The evolution will converge towards content creators being funded through decentralized crypto currency platforms so that the money cannot be prevented from getting to creators if someone wants to pay them. Something more along the lines of https://…

They kicked off 8chan but kept The Sarkeesian Effect so in my opinion they've got it exactly right. They keep up pretty nasty stuff in the name of free speech, but don't let you cross the line into doxing and the like. I much prefer having sensible humans at the helm than have something purely anonymous.

Sarkeesian uses Mortal Kombat as example of a game that 'promotes violence against women' (despite being known and marketed as a brutal fighting game) so one would have to wonder if she is such a noble venture to support..

Re: Inside Patreon, the economic engine of internet culture

#184

Post by blacksmith_tb »

nemothekid wrote: post #101
blacksmith_tb wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I often would like to tip someone without establishing an ongoing relationship with their site/work - and I'd think that they'd rather get something instead of nothing from me. While it may be more sustainable, I have to say that personally I strongly associate the subscription model with all sorts of late-capitalist scams, from gym memberships to Juicero. Which isn't to say that I am opposed to supporting people cre…

In what way is a gym membership a scam?

Many of the large gyms in particular make it absurdly complex to cancel a membership, and count on people giving up and letting it ride. Though honestly I dislike most arrangements where you pay for a service whether you use it or not - imagine if your electric bill was always just $100, regardless of how much power you used... I am sure the gym owners will protest that if they only offered pay-per-visit it'd be more expensive, or they'd go out of business, etc.

Re: Inside Patreon, the economic engine of internet culture

#185

Post by paulgb »

nostrebored wrote: post #170
paulgb wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's... not saying that at all. There is a difference between speech and action. There is a difference between risking your own life for a cause and endangering a political opponent's life for your cause.

Who are her political opponents? The migrants? Their lives are being endangered now, once by governments (who have pulled out of S&R missions) and now by NGOs, and they are very likely being trafficked into Italy. People do not realize that the Camorra and Cosa Nostra are actual things, and that the Italian Mafia is not a joke. You seem to think, completely without any substantiation, that Lauren Southern is disingen…

Maybe I see this through a different lense because I sail, but carelessness like this on the water, especially at night, bothers me. To me this is like prank calling 911 and calling it "civil disobedience" -- something I would equally hope Patreon wouldn't support. The politics are not what sways me here, and I would agree that they should not be a factor.

Re: Inside Patreon, the economic engine of internet culture

#186

Post by learc83 »

bluthru wrote: post #135
learc83 wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was a quote from Lauren Southern. "If the politicians won't stop the boats, we'll stop the boats… and we'll be back with more boats..." She was arrested by the Italian Coastguard for attempting to block a boat, she wasn't just reporting that someone else was doing it. She was clearly participating.

So you can't inhibit human trafficking? Was she charged with anything?

Please read this summary of the conversation and tell me how your comment follows.

paulgb: Lauren Southern was attempting to block ships.

bluthru: No, she was just reporting on an attempt to block ships.

learc83: No, she participated. Here's a quote from her saying she participated.

bluthru: You can't inhibit human trafficking?

Re: Inside Patreon, the economic engine of internet culture

#187

Post by nostrebored »

phry wrote: post #175

Laura Southern literally advocates for the death of migrants, pardon me for not giving a fuck about her losing an income stream.

Cite your sources, because you're objectively wrong.

Stop saying that people literally advocate for death. This is something that has happened in the past, something that will probably happen in the future, and being a sensationalist about it just makes you an asshole.

Re: Inside Patreon, the economic engine of internet culture

#188

Post by nostrebored »

paulgb wrote: post #185
nostrebored wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who are her political opponents? The migrants? Their lives are being endangered now, once by governments (who have pulled out of S&R missions) and now by NGOs, and they are very likely being trafficked into Italy. People do not realize that the Camorra and Cosa Nostra are actual things, and that the Italian Mafia is not a joke. You seem to think, completely without any substantiation, that Lauren Southern is disingen…

Maybe I see this through a different lense because I sail, but carelessness like this on the water, especially at night, bothers me. To me this is like prank calling 911 and calling it "civil disobedience" -- something I would equally hope Patreon wouldn't support. The politics are not what sways me here, and I would agree that they should not be a factor.

I can kind of see where you're coming from.

Re: Inside Patreon, the economic engine of internet culture

#189

Post by dragonwriter »

nostrebored wrote: post #173
fweespeech wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is effectively saying that investigative journalists shouldn't get too political in unpopular causes, lest they have their livelihood taken away from them. This is a suppression of free speech (not legally ofc) on a platform that syndicates political news and opinions. 1) You are arguing now that journalists should have legal immunity. > Patreon had no liability in this situation. Patreon doesn't support the s…

1) There is a difference between legal immunity and the ability to raise funds -- for which she was banned according to the letter. 2) Her reason for banning, according to the company's letter was fundraising. That is certainly a type of speech. 3) Ships in the water circling to pick up people certainly makes them take riskier actions, or pushes the risk threshold low enough that people are willing to try. I personal…

> Her reason for banning, according to the company's letter was fundraising. That is certainly a type of speech.

Fundraising to support a non-speech activity is not purely speech. e.g., if the activity is criminal, fundraising to support it is also criminal in virtually every jurisdiction on the planet, including those with the strongest free speech protections.

Re: Inside Patreon, the economic engine of internet culture

#190

Post by ngold »

dna_polymerase wrote: post #142
bryanlarsen wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They kicked off 8chan but kept The Sarkeesian Effect so in my opinion they've got it exactly right. They keep up pretty nasty stuff in the name of free speech, but don't let you cross the line into doxing and the like. I much prefer having sensible humans at the helm than have something purely anonymous.

There is no "getting it right" in free speech. Either you allow free speech or you don't, if you are keeping one controversial thing but kick out the other you gave up on free speech. You can't kick someone out because you think its right and claim allowing free spech.

Patreon is not a government body. If you host a bake sale open to everyone in your house, you can and should kick out the screaming lunatics that keep making a mess.

The screaming lunatics are free to host their own bake sale at their house.

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