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Krita Foundation in Trouble

krita.org

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Re: Krita Foundation in Trouble

#121

Post by sgift »

mrkrabo wrote: post #80
sgift wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems you didn't actually read (or understand) the post: The problem is that - until now - they DIDN'T split it in two, so currently the tax authorities say "you are some kind of mix between company and non-profit, we do whatever we want with you" (obviously simplified, read the post!). But at least they gave them a suggestion for the FUTURE: Split up, you will have no more problems. So, there is no intention to d…

That's exactly what I'm saying. They have busted them cold so they're going to be more careful about their fraud in the future by splitting the company in half.

That 'fraud' has been advised by the tax authorities themselves. That would probably be a world-first that the tax authorities that just 'busted' you recommend how to not be busted in the future.

Re: Krita Foundation in Trouble

#122

Post by icebraining »

mrkrabo wrote: post #5
Jonnax wrote: post #2

That's really sad to hear. With how complex laws are, it's scary that going to a professional may not be sufficient. But when you're totally unfamiliar with what the requirements are what can you do? Do large law/accountancy firms give a guarantee for their advice in the case that it was incorrect?

Say what you will but this is simply fraud. If they were selling stuff, they should've collected and paid the VAT for Dmitry. You are NOT a non-profit if you sell stuff. There is absolutely no complexity about this. Didn't they see anything wrong with selling stuff without collecting the VAT from every transaction? And the best part: they are now separating the sales from the foundation so they can avoid paying taxes…

Not true, see e.g. Museumkaart, which is a non-profit foundation created by the Dutch museums that sells cards for accessing them for a flat fee.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Museumkaart

Re: Krita Foundation in Trouble

#123

Post by contingencies »

Why not fold it and move to Bitcoin-only donations?

The authorities will have nothing to chase, the problem can't re-occur, accounting will be transparent, and accountants will not be required in future.

Seriously, Dutch should start a petition against their tax authorities for victimizing an open source project.

Re: Krita Foundation in Trouble

#124

Post by dvirsky »

boudewijnrempt wrote: post #95
i6ruce wrote: post #92

Donated some euros. I hope they'll make some announcement if this donations helped them.

The response has been great. I cannot currently edit the website... But we've had donations worth about 1000 euros in total now.

While I don't personally use Krita, I've been following its development for years and really admire the work that's gone into the app. Just donated a few Euros, good luck!

Re: Krita Foundation in Trouble

#125

Post by sigio »

dom0 wrote: post #39
laumars wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope this (the "Hacker News effect") doesn't bump up your hosting costs as that's the last thing you'd need. For what it's worth, I've donated. :)

EU bank transfers are free of charge.

ING Bank charges about 7 cents per transaction on business accounts... it's free on personal accounts.

Re: Krita Foundation in Trouble

#126

Post by icebraining »

gcp wrote: post #90
boudewijnrempt wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Oh yes, there is. Here's how an expert puts it: "Sadly not. Charity VAT is one of the more complicated areas of VAT, which is a great shame given that many charities are operated by unpaid volunteers who have to administer the complex rules." [1] And then add the complexity of an international situtation...

Involving a party outside the EU. I bet the latter is what really threw your first accountant off: nonprofit + suppliers outside EU. Most accountants never have to deal with something like this in their entire career.

It's not that uncommon; I'm a member of a tiny cultural non-profit association, and we buy stuff (mostly props and other materials) from China regularly.

That said, I do strongly advise finding an accountant that specializes in non-profits. Ours works with a lot of cultural associations, so he knows that law inside out.

Re: Krita Foundation in Trouble

#127

Post by gbl08ma »

icebraining wrote: post #122
mrkrabo wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Say what you will but this is simply fraud. If they were selling stuff, they should've collected and paid the VAT for Dmitry. You are NOT a non-profit if you sell stuff. There is absolutely no complexity about this. Didn't they see anything wrong with selling stuff without collecting the VAT from every transaction? And the best part: they are now separating the sales from the foundation so they can avoid paying taxes…

Not true, see e.g. Museumkaart, which is a non-profit foundation created by the Dutch museums that sells cards for accessing them for a flat fee. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Museumkaart

For a perhaps more well-known example, see the Raspberry Pi Foundation. They sell, obviously, Raspberry Pis - a lot of them. They are a charitable organization, which is a type of NPO.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raspberry_Pi_Foundation

Re: Krita Foundation in Trouble

#128

Post by lmm »

csomar wrote: post #119
lmm wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they were within the EU they would be. But because Dimitry is outside the EU, whoever's importing their work from outside the EU is responsible. (This prevents avoiding VAT by having your work done outside the EU). The EU has no way to go after an outside entity, so that's how it has to be.

Maybe I'm not quite intelligent but doesn't the VAT only work in the same jurisdiction? I mean, if we are on different tax jurisdictions then VAT should not be applicable. That's, at least, how it works in my country.

What do you mean by "work"? You don't get to just not pay VAT by having the transaction take place across a border. (At least, not when that border is on the boundary of the EU).

Re: Krita Foundation in Trouble

#129

Post by gcp »

mrkrabo wrote: post #118
gcp wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you say is (or used to be) false for deferred VAT transactions, but anyway. If you understand the nuance, why are you saying they're dodging taxes? The VAT on the freelancer is related to their business, so it is intended to be recoverable.

Do you think it is acceptable to not pay VAT just because you know you'll get the money back? It is not legal, at least. Who are you to judge that? The government must know, because they are the ones to judge.

That's what VAT deferred transactions are...I'm giving up on your dear sir.

Re: Krita Foundation in Trouble

#130

Post by Confusion »

mrkrabo wrote: post #5
Jonnax wrote: post #2

That's really sad to hear. With how complex laws are, it's scary that going to a professional may not be sufficient. But when you're totally unfamiliar with what the requirements are what can you do? Do large law/accountancy firms give a guarantee for their advice in the case that it was incorrect?

Say what you will but this is simply fraud. If they were selling stuff, they should've collected and paid the VAT for Dmitry. You are NOT a non-profit if you sell stuff. There is absolutely no complexity about this. Didn't they see anything wrong with selling stuff without collecting the VAT from every transaction? And the best part: they are now separating the sales from the foundation so they can avoid paying taxes…

You call yourself a 'good person' in your bio, but you show little evidence of that. A good person would be charitable and assume good faith.

Boudewijn Rempt is a good person.

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