This applies to extroverts as well, not just introverts (and there are plenty of extroverted programmers too)
Introverts, Emotional Processing, Self-Esteem and Salary Negotiations
71–80 of 123 posts
Re: Introverts, Emotional Processing, Self-Esteem and Salary Negotiations
#72Paging HN's own JoshDoody, who helps developers with salary negotiation for a living. And/or anyone who has used his (or similar) services! “What’s your current salary?” is a trap question–Here's how to answer it | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13724755 "Before you even get a job offer, it's important to decide what your "walk away" number is [...] I recommend literally writing it down" - https://news.ycombina…
Thanks for the mention j_s! This is a really interesting thread and a long article by Cliff. I'm working my way through it now.
Looks like the "current salary" question came up. Any other topics I should jump on for this thread? (Soooo many comments, it's taking a long time to get through them.)
Cheers!
Re: Introverts, Emotional Processing, Self-Esteem and Salary Negotiations
#73I find in general it's helpful to prepare for all interactions. Salary negotiation especially. When you get on a call to talk about salary with a recruiter you should already know pretty much how that call is going to go. If someone catches you off guard with, "Hey your demo shit the bed and ruined the client meeting" just ask them to schedule a meeting to talk about it. Always feel you like you can 'reject the premise' that you need to have a conversation on someone else's terms.
Re: Introverts, Emotional Processing, Self-Esteem and Salary Negotiations
#74Earlier quoted context omitted.
The people usually opposed are the ones who wish to maintain some sort of control.
Why is this (currently) being downvoted? The purpose of closed salaries is to keep wages down.
It just baffles me that people are drive-by downvoting this on Hacker News of all places. I think most of us here agree that transparency is desirable in government, software development, security, and so many other areas. Why do employers get a pass with the tired old "we're keeping secrets from you for your own good" line?
Re: Introverts, Emotional Processing, Self-Esteem and Salary Negotiations
#75An alternative approach I use to combat alpha-holes, and general abuse/anger is to not answer the question 100%, or answer with a lot of ambiguity. The goal is to raise more questions than you answer (don't answer them, just throw a curve ball). Couple it with some down-talking and you're good to go. This throws the attacker into a bit of mental confusion and their anger subsides instantly as they're trying to proces…
> Did your mom never tell you to ask before you touch? Hope you learnt a lesson today If I weren't livid already, that would get me there. It's condescending, needlessly brings in and insults a loved one and offers zero empathy or productive feedback.
And that may be exactly what is needed.
If someone is trying to be the alpha-jerk, playing emotionally manipulative games, they're not teachable (at least not at that moment). Compassionately asking whether they had a rough childhood is not going to help. (I mean, it might, at a different time and setting. It won't in the current one, though.)
And what they are doing is not OK. Life is too short to have to deal with that kind of garbage.
So what are your options? Silently take it, but that's not helpful - not for yourself, for your coworkers, or even for the aggressive jerk who's abusing you. It's probably better to inform the jerk, in no uncertain terms, that behaving that way will have immediate negative consequences.
Now, it's better if that message comes from the jerk's supervisor, rather than from a coworker. And it may be better to start with a slightly less aggressive response (the first time).
Note well: I'm assuming that the behavior is deliberate. If it's not - if they genuinely don't know any better - they need training on how to not be a jerk. (Hey, we've all got to learn sometime.)
Re: Introverts, Emotional Processing, Self-Esteem and Salary Negotiations
#76Is "stun-locked" from a video game I don't play or TV show I don't watch? A lot of the psychologizing and self-diagnosis in this post could be cut out if the author realized he was simply being verbally abused by an asshole. Which he was. No need for the "red" and "green" stuff. "Why" rarely matters, and even less often is something you can do anything about, while choosing your response is. Sometimes that response s…
> "Do I have to feel that I grasp the "Warrior" mentality in order to tell someone they're being rude?" The point of the article is that for some people it's impossible to respond in that situation, hence the "stun-locked". You feel the adrenaline rushing, but something holds you back. The author describes this fairly comprehensively. Also, if you look at this guy's achievements, he's no blogger. I remember studying…
It used to be "fight or flee", but recent research finds that most people freeze. Hence it is now "fight, freeze or flee".
(Src: read it on HN a few weeks ago ;) )
Re: Introverts, Emotional Processing, Self-Esteem and Salary Negotiations
#77Many of this reminds me of lack of self confidence. Being affected by other people's emotions when they are directed at you is also due to the (too) high importance you grant to their opinion of what you'll do or say or respond.
Oh, I see we've met! My current hypothesis is that a sever lack of self-esteem causes me to rely on esteem from others. But because negative interactions hurt so much more than good interactions feel good, I just end up avoiding others. There's also my mother's hypothesis that some combination of drugs will fix me. I think this seems improbable, but she claims it's how she was fixed.
My personal way of helping myself is to first of all realize everybody feels like shit, do lame things, has moments of weakness, etc.
Once you've really really realized that ( knowing it is not enough, you have to know people that seem brilliant and successful and find out how shite or vulnerable they sometimes feel), you start to be a little less ashamed of your own weaknesses.
Another good thing is your start to be a lot more tolerant and human, and, well, less of an asshole.
You also become less afraid of failing, which lets you try more things.
Re: Introverts, Emotional Processing, Self-Esteem and Salary Negotiations
#78> Has this ever happened to you?
>
Hell no. Not even close.
What kind of terrible places have you worked? If you ever experience anything close to this level of abuse you should report it if possible, and if nothing changes, quit.
Re: Introverts, Emotional Processing, Self-Esteem and Salary Negotiations
#79Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why is this (currently) being downvoted? The purpose of closed salaries is to keep wages down.
It just baffles me that people are drive-by downvoting this on Hacker News of all places. I think most of us here agree that transparency is desirable in government, software development, security, and so many other areas. Why do employers get a pass with the tired old "we're keeping secrets from you for your own good" line?
HN also agrees that privacy is desirable in just about as many areas.
Re: Introverts, Emotional Processing, Self-Esteem and Salary Negotiations
#80Seems like most of his advice could be summed up as: "Don't over-complicate the situation". To use his first example, when he's being insulted why spin off into emotional-analysis neverland? What's happening there is you're being abused by an asshole, and you should respond to said abuse and, once that situation is resolved, examine the real issue more thoroughly. I'm speaking as someone who used to think exactly lik…
> In general, no one cares. No one cares if you're partially wrong, no one cares if you're a little off or awkward, no one beyond your family/SO and close friends gives a flying fuck about your emotions. Took me awhile to figure this one out, but once I did, life was significantly better.
People do care about these things if you are a well-known public figure. I think the constant scrutinizing over the conduct of public figures misleads people into believing that their own actions are being scrutinized in the same way.