Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Al Gore: 'The rich have subverted all reason'

theguardian.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 94 posts

Re: Al Gore: 'The rich have subverted all reason'

#51

Post by DelightOne »

mathgenius wrote: post #15
crypt1d wrote: post #12

“Our democracy has been hacked.” is something that resonates with me very well. A select group of people have mastered media manipulation and are now acting as puppeteers while we are all in a state of confusion, no longer able to discern truth from disinformation. It is not classic censorship that worries me anymore. It is this constant bombardment with questionable data that we need to figure out how to battle, as…

> questionable data that we need to figure out how to battle The reality of the situation seems obvious to me, even if the edges are not clearly defined. I don't think it's very difficult to work out what is going on (with climate change etc.) To me this is not about people getting access to good data, or being otherwise properly educated. It's about people identifying with "their group", and attacking the "others".…

So saying (or possibly just feeling) we are all the same makes them try to be different by fighting with each other?

Maybe that came to be cause you cant discern anymore your pals on here as on the street where you see who he is by his looks.

Re: Al Gore: 'The rich have subverted all reason'

#52

Post by belorn »

mathgenius wrote: post #15
crypt1d wrote: post #12

“Our democracy has been hacked.” is something that resonates with me very well. A select group of people have mastered media manipulation and are now acting as puppeteers while we are all in a state of confusion, no longer able to discern truth from disinformation. It is not classic censorship that worries me anymore. It is this constant bombardment with questionable data that we need to figure out how to battle, as…

> questionable data that we need to figure out how to battle The reality of the situation seems obvious to me, even if the edges are not clearly defined. I don't think it's very difficult to work out what is going on (with climate change etc.) To me this is not about people getting access to good data, or being otherwise properly educated. It's about people identifying with "their group", and attacking the "others".…

This resonate strongly with me but there doesn't seem to be any political platform that has been promoting this theory in the last 20 years. The left focus has been on promoting the distinction and multitude of groups and the strengthening of self-identity that members has towards such groupings. The right is in return focusing the distinction between self and other, making the combination of left and right a special volatile mix in current political environment.

Sadly the group that has changed in this formula is the left. They used to (ie, 30-40 years ago) spend a lot of focusing on eliminating and underplay difference between groups. Today I often see the modern left making fun of those times as naive experiment.

Re: Al Gore: 'The rich have subverted all reason'

#53

Post by Boothroid »

horsawlarway wrote: post #48
fsloth wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, we have problems. But I would prefer an argumentation that does not place the 'artificiality' of modern farming at the fulcrum as there is no 'natural' farming. All farming is artificial - an artifact of human culture. Farming is a thousands of years old biohack, of whose output we've improved over millenias. Using nitrogen fertilizer generated through Haber process to increase crop yelds is not in any way less…

Desertification of crop lands? Increasing pesticide use coupled with decreasing benefit? Depletion of groundwater tables because of land usage that encourages run-off? Substituting fertilizer made from non-renewable resources for a self sustaining form of agriculture? Destruction of local habits for mono-culture crop development? Destroying complex ecosystems that are perfectly capable of supporting rich crops for hu…

Thank you, better than I put it.

Re: Al Gore: 'The rich have subverted all reason'

#55

Post by kasey_junk »

hidflect wrote: post #49

This is the guy who flies on private jets, right?

That claim was true more than 10 years ago. Responding to the hypocrisy claims he's travelled Southwest for a long time & buys offset credits when he does.

That Trump was able to bring that back as if it were currently true is pretty clearly an example of the manipulation talked about in this article.

Re: Al Gore: 'The rich have subverted all reason'

#56

Post by bryananderson »

"Orwell feared those who would deprive us of information. Huxley feared those who would give us so much that we would be reduced to passivity and egoism. Orwell feared that the truth would be concealed from us. Huxley feared the truth would be drowned in a sea of irrelevance." -Neil Postman

This isn't going to get better as AI bots improve their ability to sound human and steer the conversation.

I'm kind of at a loss for a solution to this, aside from trusting only well-established media outlets, but that has its own drawbacks.

Re: Al Gore: 'The rich have subverted all reason'

#57

Post by humanrebar »

kasey_junk wrote: post #55
hidflect wrote: post #49

This is the guy who flies on private jets, right?

That claim was true more than 10 years ago. Responding to the hypocrisy claims he's travelled Southwest for a long time & buys offset credits when he does. That Trump was able to bring that back as if it were currently true is pretty clearly an example of the manipulation talked about in this article.

Aren't offset credits themselves a form of manipulation? Compared to being a solution, it seems just as likely to me that they're a cultural placebo.

Re: Al Gore: 'The rich have subverted all reason'

#58

Post by humanrebar »

maxerickson wrote: post #38
PacketPaul wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How did he get so rich from a government salary?

He sold a large stake in a TV network that he was involved with after leaving office: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Current_TV And it isn't like Congress is poorly compensated. Currently Senators are paid $174,000 a year.

That sounds on the low end for mid-to-late career lawyers, doctors, and businessmen in the DC area.

Of course, the power and fame is seductive, so paying below market rate makes a lot of sense.

Re: Al Gore: 'The rich have subverted all reason'

#59

Post by kasey_junk »

humanrebar wrote: post #57
kasey_junk wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That claim was true more than 10 years ago. Responding to the hypocrisy claims he's travelled Southwest for a long time & buys offset credits when he does. That Trump was able to bring that back as if it were currently true is pretty clearly an example of the manipulation talked about in this article.

Aren't offset credits themselves a form of manipulation? Compared to being a solution, it seems just as likely to me that they're a cultural placebo.

I think economists have mixed views. It seems though that the only way to change the market behaviors is to externalize the climate costs & credits are one way to do that.

In any case, based on his current behavior & the current market, dismissing Gore based on the private jet thing seems misguided, but there are lots of very powerful forces aligned to do just that.

Re: Al Gore: 'The rich have subverted all reason'

#60

Post by anotherturn »

atemerev wrote: post #45

Usually Mr. Gore visits places where he gives these speeches (as well as his no less entertaining presentations on climate change and how save the environment by limiting consumption) by means of his private jet. So, not impressed. Next!

If any change is going to be made it's going to come through revolution (a la France) or through someone in the top 1% changing things from the top down (a la slavery). The fact that he gets around on a private jet is neither here nor there - we can live with hypocrisy. What we cannot live with is inaction.
Post reply on HN