This is horrible, but in England and America, I'm 100% certain that similar policies will be applied - in the name of law, and public security.
Apple Removes Apps from China Store That Help Internet Users Evade Censorship
291–300 of 449 posts
Re: Apple Removes Apps from China Store That Help Internet Users Evade Censorship
#292Earlier quoted context omitted.
Fear of the Government that is even in your pocket?! As someone who grew up in the East Block, reading such naive comments as yours leaves me divided. It's good on one hand that you've never came even close to an oppressive government so not even your imagination allows you to grok. On the other hand facing the development in the world, it's quite concerning.
> As someone who grew up in the East Block so you grew up in the old communist eastern bloc, and you want to blindly compare what you suffered back then to what is happening in China now? I didn't grew up in communism, I grew up after the 1978 reform in China. My entire extended family work for the private sector with my closest family members running their own successful private businesses. Did you guys have that in…
You are correct, the PRC doesn't care that much about nobodies venting on web forums. People like you pose no threat so you are ignored.
Now try organising something to act on that criticism, like people in the West can do. You'll suddenly discover that it's very different.
Re: Apple Removes Apps from China Store That Help Internet Users Evade Censorship
#293Earlier quoted context omitted.
"And most educated people continue using VPNs too. Normal people are becoming experts in encription, security..." As I'm not familiar with China or its (native) people, I have no grounds to refute the statement above, but is it really true ? My experience is that a large number of people in the West ("educated" or not) are barely interested even in the information and news that are readily available to them, and most…
There is no such mentioned risk for using VPN. I am posting here from Shanghai using my VPN. It has been going on for more than a decade and I couldn't name any single person who got arrested/charged/or even questioned for using so called "illegal" VPN.
It's well known that the government there is in the process of systematically blocking VPN usages. This is causing issues in academia at least, along with other segments of society that got used to"opting out" of the firewall and now find they cannot.
Re: Apple Removes Apps from China Store That Help Internet Users Evade Censorship
#294Earlier quoted context omitted.
There is no such thing as "once they decide". Once you notice that what you are doing is immoral, you have to revise previous decisions. Also, it's not that cut and dry: If your product actually contributes to the wealth of the country, they cannot just ban you without hurting themselves. Just because they legally can, does not mean you don't have any leverage.
How many of Apple's devices are manufactured in China? The Chinese Government could completely cripple Apple in a second. It really isn't Apple that has the leverage. Censorship is fundamental to Chinese government policy. It's totally non-negotiable. You either do as they say, or you don't operate in China. No negotiation, no compromise. Given the manufacturing situation China has Apple by the short and curlies, and…
Yet somehow Google manages to make phones and not cooperate with China.
Re: Apple Removes Apps from China Store That Help Internet Users Evade Censorship
#295Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't get your complaint at all. What would you rather have them do? What would "sticking to their guns" involve? Or would you rather have them not "make so much noise" about social justice?
They could always do what Google did and abandon China.
This is something I never understood. Google has this "do no evil" value and because staying in China involved compromising this value they left. The result is that the Chinese people are short one search engine as well as _any_ good that Google could have done. This seems ultimately more evil to me. It's good for Google because they can say they upheld their values, and it's good for the Chinese government because now they have one less external factor to manage in their control of information. Perhaps there is more to this picture than I am seeing but that has always been my view.
There's an ancient Chinese story where a farmer criticizes an official who exiled himself because the government is corrupt. As the fisherman departs he sings: "when the water of the river is clean I wash my hat in the river, when the waters are dirty I wash my feet in the river". What good can the virtuous official do living out in the mountains? Instead you should adapt your participation to the conditions of the playing field.
Re: Apple Removes Apps from China Store That Help Internet Users Evade Censorship
#296Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't necessarily blame corporations for this. My point is that we shouldn't look at corporations as agents for freedom. A lot of people seem to be doing this. In the end they will fall in line with whoever is running the country. As long as there is money to be made.
Who is doing that? Corporations exist only to generate profit for their shareholders and they aren't shy about admitting that
It's not the case. Show me the law that says that. You can't be there isn't one - it's perfectly possible for companies to take moral stands and many do.
Consider that both Google and Facebook have no presence in China.
Re: Apple Removes Apps from China Store That Help Internet Users Evade Censorship
#297Earlier quoted context omitted.
They get what...30-40% of their profits from China? Here is how it would play out: Tim announces they are leaving China, Apple stock loses 90% of its value overnight, Tim is removed as CEO, new CEO comes in and says they are staying in China, Apple stock recovers 70% of its value. So ya, even if Apple isn't selected out, Tim certainly would be. You are suggesting actions that a publicly traded company just cannot mak…
>They get what...30-40% of their profits from China? ~20% in Q117, down 12% from Q116 [0]. China is their only shrinking market (at least at the granularity of data provided). [0] https://www.apple.com/newsroom/pdfs/Q1FY17DataSummary.pdf
And Apple is one of the most profitable companies in the world no? They can't spend the money they earn. They could lose 20% and still not be able to spend what they make.
Re: Apple Removes Apps from China Store That Help Internet Users Evade Censorship
#298Earlier quoted context omitted.
They could stop operating in Saudi Arabia to show their support for gay rights. But again, there's money to be made. Much easier to just slam Trump or whoever.
Saudi Arabia isn't demanding they cripple their products, so selling their products in Saudi Arabia isn't ethically fraught. And Apple isn't spending their time slamming Trump. They're a tech company, not a politician.
These days, ANYONE with a platform, of ANY kind -- cable TV show, massive Twitter following, corporate officer of a Fortune 500, et. al., is a politician.
Re: Apple Removes Apps from China Store That Help Internet Users Evade Censorship
#299I assume they are still allowing manual VPN configurations right? They are only removing apps that configure it automatically for you. Not downplaying the impact of this, just clarifying.
No, there are other apps that implemented other types of VPN using https://developer.apple.com/documentation/networkextension
There are many VPN apps that based on ShadowSocks.
Re: Apple Removes Apps from China Store That Help Internet Users Evade Censorship
#300Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't know. That's why it's even a problem. If there was an easy answer then Apple would just do it (or not) and there would be no discussion or dilemma to be had and we'd all applaud them or shit on them depending on if they did the right thing or not. It's a very tough problem because on one side isolating is bad and allows the oppressive governments to create 'us with them' rhetoric and replace foreign companies…
You also have to consider China is a sovereign country with their own laws and culture. Who is Apple (or the US for that matter) to dictate what those laws or cultures are? Consider the US has many laws and practices that are considered human rights abuses domestically, much less abroad. Among these is the practice of solitary confinement, police allowed to withhold evidence during interrogation, overreaching sentenc…
There is culture, justified censorship (of extremism for example) and then there is hiding what government did during Tiananmen Square incidents and hiding the transgressions of the CPC and twisting or destroying pre-communist Chinese history, culture and religion.
No one is telling Muslim countries to show women hair or telling Singapore or China to unban porn or Europeans to stop enjoying football and enjoy baseball. But if a country's culture includes censoring actual genuine political criticism then perhaps western culture should include not dealing with such countries or undermining that part of their 'culture' whenever possible.
All of the things you mentioned as possibly wrong in the USA are very widely criticized domestically and abroad and debated (the efficiency of debating against people who justify for profit prisons and inhumane treatment of prisoners and so on is completely separate matter of course) and not censored so they might actually change in the future and even if the government attempts censorship is some roundabout way it blows up in their face with even more attention to the issue.
Meanwhile Chinese government wants to use censorship and related powers to cover CPC and governmental abuses and misuses of power, attack its neighbouring countries with propaganda and so on. And people consider this largely okay.