Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Apple Removes Apps from China Store That Help Internet Users Evade Censorship

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

171–180 of 449 posts

Re: Apple Removes Apps from China Store That Help Internet Users Evade Censorship

#171

Post by FRex »

humanrebar wrote: post #125
FRex wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No one ever said that capitalism was very aligned with human rights. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Typical answer I heard in this case is that you can create your own Apple and provide better and cheaper service and respects human rights. (No, in the eyes of mindless capitalists[1] barrier to entry doesn't exist.) [1] By that I mean people who say every single problem on Earth will be forced if only all regulations and governments are…

The phone market isn't exactly open. There is more or less a government chartered oligopoly in mobile data industry. Those companies were leveraged to create the initial consumer lock in that Apple enjoys now. Interoperability without Apple's consent is also possible but it's a government chartered monopoly on technology (copyrights, patents, bans on circumvention) that prevents that. All that being said, you're talk…

I'm not saying it's open. But clearly capitalism doesn't lead to solutions of all problems ever, as evidenced by this.

But then a right winger will visit Shanghai, talk to a bunch of happy Chinese and make a YouTube video where he says that in China everyone is happy and rich while in EU your daily life is a struggle against Calais EuroTunnel stowaways or something.

The only thing that allows China to do all these is political will of the people in countries that enable it. Somehow North Korea doesn't get a free pass but China does. As long as people value cheap products and ruthless 'capitalism' and 'free market' (if you can even call China that with all the governmental interference) more than rights of ordinary (i.e. not ones in central Shanghai) Chinese this will keep happening.

Re: Apple Removes Apps from China Store That Help Internet Users Evade Censorship

#172

Post by travmatt »

maxxxxx wrote: post #20

That's why corporations will never help against dictatorship. They may do it if it's convenient but in the end they will prioritize money over everything else and fall in line with dictatorships. Happened during the Nazi time, it's happening in China now.

I wouldn't call China a dictatorship... it's an authoritarian state, but calling Xi Jinping a dictator isn't really accurate.

Re: Apple Removes Apps from China Store That Help Internet Users Evade Censorship

#173

Post by chongli »

coldcode wrote: post #138

You cannot do business in China without doing what they tell you. Period. Either you do it or you leave. I work for a big company (you would all know) and we have a large business unit in China, they own 52% of it. They decide what goes in and how customers can use it. We don't get to decide anything without government approval. It's so easy to claim the West shouldn't do what the leadership of China wants in China,…

Even if you do play by all the rules it seems likely that your business will be cloned by a local startup and then you'll get kicked out anyway.

The CPC is engaged in a very shortsighted strategy. They're doing everything they can to hang on to untenable growth numbers. When the chickens come home to roost there is going to be real trouble the likes of which we have not seen in living memory. The wealthy in China have seen the writing on the wall for a long time and are doing everything they can to exit before it's too late.

Re: Apple Removes Apps from China Store That Help Internet Users Evade Censorship

#174

Post by FRex »

blfr wrote: post #155
FRex wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No one ever said that capitalism was very aligned with human rights. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Typical answer I heard in this case is that you can create your own Apple and provide better and cheaper service and respects human rights. (No, in the eyes of mindless capitalists[1] barrier to entry doesn't exist.) [1] By that I mean people who say every single problem on Earth will be forced if only all regulations and governments are…

This problem was clearly created by the Chinese government so it's probably not the best thread for a tirade against a libertarian strawman.

It's not a fucking strawman, it's the answer of die hard capitalists to every single problem with capitalism - create a company and fix it all, "free market will dictate that the better product wins" and all that jazz.

If someone can't afford food or rent that means that he didn't work hard enough for it and doesn't provide 'value'. That's die hard capitalism that enables shit like China to happen and this is all over the Western world.

Human rights are 'leftist' hogwash to them and impede 'progress'. "Back when there were no human rights people had 5 or 10 children and could easily afford it!".

You don't have to look far for examples: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14872564

Re: Apple Removes Apps from China Store That Help Internet Users Evade Censorship

#175

Post by xienze »

coldcode wrote: post #138

You cannot do business in China without doing what they tell you. Period. Either you do it or you leave. I work for a big company (you would all know) and we have a large business unit in China, they own 52% of it. They decide what goes in and how customers can use it. We don't get to decide anything without government approval. It's so easy to claim the West shouldn't do what the leadership of China wants in China,…

> You cannot do business in China without doing what they tell you.

Of course, I get that. But it's always companies like Apple that make so much noise about social justice who don't stick to their guns when China's involved.

Re: Apple Removes Apps from China Store That Help Internet Users Evade Censorship

#176

Post by virtuabhi »

bilbo0s wrote: post #157
coldcode wrote: post #138

You cannot do business in China without doing what they tell you. Period. Either you do it or you leave. I work for a big company (you would all know) and we have a large business unit in China, they own 52% of it. They decide what goes in and how customers can use it. We don't get to decide anything without government approval. It's so easy to claim the West shouldn't do what the leadership of China wants in China,…

I suppose there are the questions of law and fiduciary duties. If it's the law, it's the law. In China, it's the law to remove VPN apps. I suppose it's really not much different than the laws in the US that compel companies to give the government access to my information if they request such access. It's just the law, it's not really Facebook and Google trying to screw me. All that said, I think what most posters are…

"I suppose it's really not much different than the laws in the US that compel companies to give the government access to my information if they request such access."

No, in US the directive comes from court and even then the companies can deny the information if it is encrypted (e.g. like Apple did in San Bernardino).

I also do not understand the nonsensical argument everyday that if US does small x then it allows other countries to do big X along with big Y. What kind of logic is this?

Re: Apple Removes Apps from China Store That Help Internet Users Evade Censorship

#178

Post by ArialAnemone »

humanrebar wrote: post #161
sametmax wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair enough. But I don't think complaining about it is going to help. Pointing it out yes, but the tone need to be more neutral if you want the crowd from this site to take it seriously.

I'm not saying this is the topic to be aggressive in, but neutrality and dispassion aren't always virtues. For example: "I understand why you think apartheid is best. I just personally wish you would reconsider."

Pre-apartheid: SA has working first world infrastructure

Post-apartheid: SA is mired in governmental incompetence and degradation of infrastructure. Not to mention highly elevated levels of murder and rape.

:^)

Re: Apple Removes Apps from China Store That Help Internet Users Evade Censorship

#179

Post by [deleted] »

humanrebar wrote: post #161
sametmax wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair enough. But I don't think complaining about it is going to help. Pointing it out yes, but the tone need to be more neutral if you want the crowd from this site to take it seriously.

I'm not saying this is the topic to be aggressive in, but neutrality and dispassion aren't always virtues. For example: "I understand why you think apartheid is best. I just personally wish you would reconsider."

[deleted]

Re: Apple Removes Apps from China Store That Help Internet Users Evade Censorship

#180

Post by ArialAnemone »

humanrebar wrote: post #161
sametmax wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair enough. But I don't think complaining about it is going to help. Pointing it out yes, but the tone need to be more neutral if you want the crowd from this site to take it seriously.

I'm not saying this is the topic to be aggressive in, but neutrality and dispassion aren't always virtues. For example: "I understand why you think apartheid is best. I just personally wish you would reconsider."

Pre-apartheid: SA has working first world infrastructure

Post-apartheid: SA is mired in governmental incompetence and degradation of infrastructure. Not to mention highly elevated levels of murder and rape.

:^)

Post reply on HN