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Apple Removes Apps from China Store That Help Internet Users Evade Censorship

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Re: Apple Removes Apps from China Store That Help Internet Users Evade Censorship

#91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's extremely disingenuous. Any profit left on the table will be exploited by the next corporation in line. The loop has to be closed by the people when they get mature enough... and if that's what they want: there are few things more bigot than someone measuring with the west meter other countries' success.

"If I'm not mugging the grandma, somebody else will" is the most disingenuous excuse of all.

When you consider selection, it winds up the same. Say in china if you follow the pollution laws, your competitors will undercut you and they won't suffer any consequences because rule of law is weak. So if you follow the rules, you go out of business, you don't exist anymore, leaving just polluting companies around.

Likewise, Apple can play China's game, or just cease to exist in china where someone else will merely take their place. The situation is exactly the same, grandma is getting mugged no matter what.

But...even worse than that though, the company has to compete with those Chinese players outside of china as well, and leaving Chinese market share out, that can make it harder....they could disappear entirely from the rest of the world as well (assuming Chinese players are competent outside of china, which admittedly hasn't been shown yet). So at the end of the day, of competition is working perfectly, those that refuse to play in a market can simply be selected out completely. Leaving only players who are willing to mug grandma...not because all the companies are evil, but because the non evil companies died off.

It isn't simple. In the long run, a political solution will be needed, we can't leave morality up to private companies that have to compete or die.

Re: Apple Removes Apps from China Store That Help Internet Users Evade Censorship

#92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Whataboutism fallacies were pioneered by the Soviet Union during the Cold War, but when used by someone in the west, they just come off as looking extremely insecure and desperate for a workable argument. So it is a cultural difference. While whataboutisms and moral high ground fallacies are acceptable in the east, in the west they just signal insecurity and desperation.

No. The term whataboutism was used as a way to disregard an argument, without addressing it's point. It is usable only from the position of arrogance. It has no place in a honest discussion.

This was a clear what aboutism that had no argument attached to it. It was the very definition of a what aboutism, not ambiguous in the slightest. The writer even starts out with the proverbial glass house! And then states something about the USA pulling out of the climate accord, which is relevant to censorship? Even as whataboutisms go, this one is not even on topic.

They could have replaced that whole paragraph by "what aboutism america!" And no information would have been lost.

Seriously, what aboutisms have no place in serious discussions.

Re: Apple Removes Apps from China Store That Help Internet Users Evade Censorship

#93
post #36

What a despicable joke of a country. And shame on Apple for aiding them while they made such a massive deal of user rights in the US.

In America, they're still free to openly complain about American policies. Try that in China and you'll be gone before the week is over and a state-sponsored company will take your place

Complaining is the opiate of the masses.

Re: Apple Removes Apps from China Store That Help Internet Users Evade Censorship

#94
post #65

Just common sense, given that the China gobertment has made usage of VPNs illegal. What do you expect? People in China could continue using app store accounts created in other countries as usual. And most educated people continue using VPNs too. Normal people are becoming experts in encription, security... It worries me more that countries like the UK and the US want to follow China, in that order.

UK is the surveillance capital of this planet [1]. PM May expressed readiness to "tear up Human Rights"[2]. UK is the enabler of Chinese CP leadership, not a follower. [1]: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/nov/19/extreme-survei... [2]: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jun/06/theresa-may...

That is incredibly alarming. I follow UK news with great worries about internet freedom, freedom of speech and human rights in general. I don't understand how the population allows this??

Re: Apple Removes Apps from China Store That Help Internet Users Evade Censorship

#95
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neither America nor the U.K. have national firewalls in place.

And yet Apple already polices you for any kind of content you might deem offensive / objectionable or not "family friendly" enough on your iOS device.

Yes. But Apple is a private company, that is there prerogative.

Re: Apple Removes Apps from China Store That Help Internet Users Evade Censorship

#96
post #65

Just common sense, given that the China gobertment has made usage of VPNs illegal. What do you expect? People in China could continue using app store accounts created in other countries as usual. And most educated people continue using VPNs too. Normal people are becoming experts in encription, security... It worries me more that countries like the UK and the US want to follow China, in that order.

I expect Apple to respect universal human rights regardless of the context. Freedom of speech is foundational. And this isn't a China-vs-the-West thing. The idea that people deserve and need to be able to communicate freely predates the current governments of both China and the U.S.

It's a business after all and China is a huge market for Apple.

No one ever said that capitalism was very aligned with human rights. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Re: Apple Removes Apps from China Store That Help Internet Users Evade Censorship

#97
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neither America nor the U.K. have national firewalls in place.

Yet. Theresa May would build one right away if she could (and the first steps are being taken)

If she could. But they would need to build those first before considering the next step of blocking VPNs. See austrailia at risk also. I doubt it would ever happen in America, however.

Re: Apple Removes Apps from China Store That Help Internet Users Evade Censorship

#98
post #6

Hey Timmy, what was all that talk about customer security? https://www.apple.com/customer-letter/ And here I was, almost believing you.

This is arguably worse than if they had done nothing at all to supposedly protect user privacy. Now it's clear that Apple was just playing the crowd to win sales. Why should we even believe that they aren't covertly cooperating with the FBI?

That's hardly an Apple-specific issue though. I'd argue we shouldn't trust any corporation -- like Google, Amazon, Facebook as well -- and assume they are in bed with the agencies from the get go.

Re: Apple Removes Apps from China Store That Help Internet Users Evade Censorship

#99
post #65

Just common sense, given that the China gobertment has made usage of VPNs illegal. What do you expect? People in China could continue using app store accounts created in other countries as usual. And most educated people continue using VPNs too. Normal people are becoming experts in encription, security... It worries me more that countries like the UK and the US want to follow China, in that order.

What I expect them to do is this:

1) Put up as much of a fight as possible, just as they have done in the US.

2) Allow sideloading of apps.

Re: Apple Removes Apps from China Store That Help Internet Users Evade Censorship

#100

Next China will outlaw Linux for having an IPSec implementation in it, lol. What a sad country that believes liberty comes after wealth, and in relative terms may never have either.

GFW managed to screw IPSec ages ago. It is also worth pointing out that the GFW itself is built on top of Linux systems.
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