High refined sugar intake linked to a 23% higher risk of mental disorders • Hacker News Board

Re: High refined sugar intake linked to a 23% higher risk of mental disorders

#71

Post by thesz » Fri, Jul 28, 2017, 2:58 PM UTC

shlant wrote: post #35

tzamora wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess you are talking processed, adultered meat. If you have normal organic meat there is no problem at all. Likely we have been eating meat from the beginning of our existance. The problem is that the anti meat lobby like peta or sugar-bread industry want us to buy more of their products. Keto is a really good healthy diet its just that requires that you educate yourself and also is really hard to mantain because…

> If you have normal organic meat there is no problem at all Source? Because all of this seems to show otherwise: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23306319 http://www.bmj.com/content/357/bmj.j1957 http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/85/2/518.full http://cancerpreventionresearch.aacrjournals.org/content/can... > Likely we have been eating meat from the beginning of our existance Just because we have evolved eating me…

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4944490/?report...

Also please read China Study critiques. They are good at dismantling "red meat is bad" point of view.

Re: High refined sugar intake linked to a 23% higher risk of mental disorders

#72

Post by cageface » Fri, Jul 28, 2017, 3:31 PM UTC

DiThi wrote: post #66

cageface wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fat and cholesterol are very much a problem, despite what a lot of vested interests would like you to believe: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmKv1m2SVio https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBtfzd43t8o

The vast majority of the studies mentioned in those videos are old, where most researchers could get away with hacking the P values [0]. A lot of studies done in the last decade contradict the older ones (the article I linked earlier is full of sources). Also correlation is not causation. In how many of those studies controlled the amount of carbs? Because the combination is very important [1] [0] https://www.youtube…

There are plenty of studies from the last few years that back all this up in detail. If you go to nutritionfacts.org you'll find more references than you can handle.

Re: High refined sugar intake linked to a 23% higher risk of mental disorders

#73

Post by shlant » Fri, Jul 28, 2017, 4:13 PM UTC

thesz wrote: post #71

shlant wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you have normal organic meat there is no problem at all Source? Because all of this seems to show otherwise: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23306319 http://www.bmj.com/content/357/bmj.j1957 http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/85/2/518.full http://cancerpreventionresearch.aacrjournals.org/content/can... > Likely we have been eating meat from the beginning of our existance Just because we have evolved eating me…

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4944490/?report... Also please read China Study critiques. They are good at dismantling "red meat is bad" point of view.

1. The study you referenced included 28 participants and utilized food frequency questionnaires. Maybe you have something more substantial? Because that is pretty weak on multiple levels.

2. Nobody is referencing the China Study here. It is also 12 years old. Not sure what critiques you are referring to (as you didn't reference any), but I highly doubt they would discredit the information I referenced just because they have to do with "dismantling" the "red meat is bad point of view."

Here is yet another huge meta analysis of the correlation between red meat and Type 2 Diabetes published just 2 years ago:

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Yoona_Kim5/publication/...

Re: High refined sugar intake linked to a 23% higher risk of mental disorders

#74

Post by shlant » Fri, Jul 28, 2017, 4:25 PM UTC

nightski wrote: post #55

shlant wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you have normal organic meat there is no problem at all Source? Because all of this seems to show otherwise: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23306319 http://www.bmj.com/content/357/bmj.j1957 http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/85/2/518.full http://cancerpreventionresearch.aacrjournals.org/content/can... > Likely we have been eating meat from the beginning of our existance Just because we have evolved eating me…

Look, you can be on a ketogenic diet and not eat meat at all. I eat a few ounces a day. I could easily not eat any at all and still maintain a high fat ketogenic diet, but I enjoy the flavor. I also have read plenty of studies that contradict the ones above. I'm not saying they are necessarily wrong. But I find medical statistical studies very hard to interpret because they don't control for all the factors and the d…

> Look, you can be on a ketogenic diet and not eat meat at all.

For sure, but I doubt most people doing Keto are eating very little to no meat.

> I find medical statistical studies very hard to interpret because they don't control for all the factors and the data is not super reliable

Ok so you are suggesting we throw out all studies because they may or may not control for all the variables? That seems like a zero sum proposition that is a bit overkill. Of course there are some studies that are less rigorously controlled than others, but to conclude that no studies can be trusted because "medical statistical studies very hard to interpret" and "the data is not super reliable" just seems like an excuse to ignore what is very compelling evidence.

Re: High refined sugar intake linked to a 23% higher risk of mental disorders

#75

Post by DiThi » Fri, Jul 28, 2017, 4:57 PM UTC

cageface wrote: post #72

DiThi wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vast majority of the studies mentioned in those videos are old, where most researchers could get away with hacking the P values [0]. A lot of studies done in the last decade contradict the older ones (the article I linked earlier is full of sources). Also correlation is not causation. In how many of those studies controlled the amount of carbs? Because the combination is very important [1] [0] https://www.youtube…

There are plenty of studies from the last few years that back all this up in detail. If you go to nutritionfacts.org you'll find more references than you can handle.

Did you search enough within those sources to refute the ones of the article I linked? I barely find any in nutritionfacts made in the last 10-15 years, and of those I can't find even a single one that points to fat and cholesterol as the main cause of heart disease.

Re: High refined sugar intake linked to a 23% higher risk of mental disorders

#76

Post by rybosome » Fri, Jul 28, 2017, 7:09 PM UTC

colechristensen wrote: post #54

rybosome wrote: post #3

I'm curious if this includes unprocessed fructose, glucose, lactose, etc. I eat quite a bit of fruit, but my refined sugar intake is much lower than it used to be due to making an effort to cut sugary things out of my life (unless eaten with intention).

What bothers me is there's no magical "processing" that does anything to these simple sugars. Fructose is... a 20 atom molecule? There's no magical processing that makes that molecule any different inside a fruit or in honey or in corn syrup. So either the problem is the characteristics of a single food item (ratio of sugar, fiber, fat, etc.), some magical byproduct of processing that makes up a very tiny fraction of…

As others have already pointed out, it's the extraction and concentration of fructose (which is what is meant by "processing" in this context) that is so bad.

The perfect example is that it's unlikely you'd have the appetite for eating 15 apples, but it's not difficult to drink 15 apples worth of juice.

Re: High refined sugar intake linked to a 23% higher risk of mental disorders

#77

Post by nightski » Sat, Jul 29, 2017, 12:56 AM UTC

shlant wrote: post #74

nightski wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look, you can be on a ketogenic diet and not eat meat at all. I eat a few ounces a day. I could easily not eat any at all and still maintain a high fat ketogenic diet, but I enjoy the flavor. I also have read plenty of studies that contradict the ones above. I'm not saying they are necessarily wrong. But I find medical statistical studies very hard to interpret because they don't control for all the factors and the d…

> Look, you can be on a ketogenic diet and not eat meat at all. For sure, but I doubt most people doing Keto are eating very little to no meat. > I find medical statistical studies very hard to interpret because they don't control for all the factors and the data is not super reliable Ok so you are suggesting we throw out all studies because they may or may not control for all the variables? That seems like a zero su…

Of course I don't want to throw the studies out. I'm suggesting the conclusions are too strong and not necessarily justified.

Re: High refined sugar intake linked to a 23% higher risk of mental disorders

#78

Post by scottLobster » Sat, Jul 29, 2017, 3:00 PM UTC

cageface wrote: post #36

scottLobster wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does your plant-based diet include bread/carbs, and did you stick with the keto diet for more than a few days? Usually when people feel like crap (initially) on keto it's their bodies switching over from primarily burning sugar to primarily burning fat, but it subsides after a few hours/days depending on the person/diet (look up "keto flu"). Note that keto does not necessarily include meat. You'd get the same effect…

I eat complex carbs like brown rice. I avoid refined carbs. I did keto for two weeks and finally had to stop because I felt worse and hated what I was eating. To be clear I was eating the kind of keto diet I usually see people endorse which is very heavy in animal fat and protein. In contrast I’ve been purely plant based for three weeks now and I’ve noticed dramatic improvements in my mood and energy levels. I’ve los…

Yeah that would be the difference. I'm not really technically "keto" at this point given my cheat days, right now I'm doing a 16/8 daily fast, but my typical diet is about 2/3 fruits and vegetables 1/3 meat, and I've never felt better. By contrast I once tried eating something like 90% meat for weeks and also felt like crap (although I did lose weight). The lack of fiber was particularly palpable. :P

My personal theory is a lot of prescribed keto diets have lax regulations on meat, so everyone who goes for them immediately maxes out the tastiest item available. The meat, assuming it's high quality/minimally processed isn't a problem directly, but eating more meat means you're eating fewer vegetables/fruit/nuts to balance things out.

I'd still say meat is more than a luxury in moderate doses. Zinc/B-Vitamins/Omega-3s and a lot of other good stuff is very hard to find naturally in non-meat form, and given the lack of regulation in the supplement industry I'd rather get such things through food.