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Foxconn to Build $10B Factory in U.S

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Re: Foxconn to Build $10B Factory in U.S

#141
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doubtful alot of the Recovery Act was for One Time Construction projects, like paving a road. There were also alot of one off projects like sending people out to help with Energy Efficiency in homes. There was not alot of long term stable jobs in there.

Your first sentence suggests that you disagreed with my previous post, but your rationale very much supports my point. Spending 125-250K on a job that only exists for a year is markedly worse than paying a comparable amount for a job that lasts many years.

I dont think the government should be paying for any job.

I disagree with this corporate subsidy, and I disagreed with the Recovery act

Re: Foxconn to Build $10B Factory in U.S

#144
post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your first sentence suggests that you disagreed with my previous post, but your rationale very much supports my point. Spending 125-250K on a job that only exists for a year is markedly worse than paying a comparable amount for a job that lasts many years.

I dont think the government should be paying for any job. I disagree with this corporate subsidy, and I disagreed with the Recovery act

That's fine, but my statement was neither for not against. Just observing that one appears to be a better bargain than the other.

Re: Foxconn to Build $10B Factory in U.S

#145
post #15

I find it hard to believe that they won't automate it to the max. They've started to do it in china, why wouldn't they do it here where labor is more expensive and the factory is brand new. Foxconn has been manufacturing for a long time and they are looking to reduce costs not increase them by building in the US. Automation is the best way. I bet the jobs are not long term. Some jobs are better than none but don't pa…

They don't want to have problems with current US administration and Trump wants factories, so they give him factories.

[deleted]

Re: Foxconn to Build $10B Factory in U.S

#146
post #87
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not an idea that's worth taking seriously, like everything else from Marx.

I'm dying to hear you expound on exactly what Marx actually says and why what he says shouldn't be taken seriously. Cites and quotes while you're at it, please. (No third parties, please--he clearly doesn't need the help.)

A basic primer is linked below for you. I'm sure you'll have wonderful, super duper insightful, and super smart commentary on it. Looking forward to it!

http://www2.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/theory/marxism.html

Re: Foxconn to Build $10B Factory in U.S

#147
post #146
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm dying to hear you expound on exactly what Marx actually says and why what he says shouldn't be taken seriously. Cites and quotes while you're at it, please. (No third parties, please--he clearly doesn't need the help.)

A basic primer is linked below for you. I'm sure you'll have wonderful, super duper insightful, and super smart commentary on it. Looking forward to it! http://www2.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/theory/marxism.html

Have you read that piece? Because I have read it before, and Domhoff writes with regards to Marxists rather than Marx. If you're going to slag Marx for what Leninists and their derivatives have decided to read into it--well, that's a pretty curious thing to do. Not uncommon, because frankly most people haven't actually read Marx and are unqualified to opine, but I know for a fact that Domhoff has, which makes this...well, like I said--curious.

The one criticism of that article I do have as far as what people he perceives as "Marxists" think (and I'm not one, though I do think that the general shape of what Marx describes, as opposed to either Marx's end-state conclusions or Marxists-the-fear-object group might believe) is that social democracy, which I will helpfully point out is not "Marxism", has also fairly obviously demonstrated its bones over the last decade-plus, after the article's writing, as that late-capitalistic model has created additional, shitty stresses on populations. Free market uber alles has catastrophically failed in every nontrivial employment, and while heavily-planned or fully-planned economies have obvious problems, social democracies the world over have this tendency to mostly work. I won't call them a global maximum, because that's impossible, but they have a decent claim to a local one.

Anyway, let's be real: this isn't a "basic primer" and it doesn't contain the argument you thought it did after you googled "Marxism critique". You don't have to like the way things are going, but if you're gonna pretend to an opinion, maybe give it an honest go before you offer it?

Re: Foxconn to Build $10B Factory in U.S

#148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Keep in mind that it's tax rebate, so Wisconsin is not getting any of that if they didn't lure foxconn to them in the first place. Taxpayers are actually not funding any of this. The money is effectively taken from wherever foxconn was gonna build this factory, like China, or Mexico.

> Taxpayers are actually not funding any of this. Today if you buy an LCD monitor from Foxconn, they have to pay ~5% Wisconsin state sales tax. Under this deal, they get the rebate. So, taxpayers are paying with revenue they would otherwise have gained.

Foxconn is an OEM, nobody buys LCDs from them on the retail market.

Re: Foxconn to Build $10B Factory in U.S

#149
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many would argue that job subsidies like this are the opposite of capitalism. Under a free market, the government wouldn't be subsidizing anything.

> Many would argue that job subsidies like this are the opposite of capitalism. Under a free market, the government wouldn't be subsidizing anything. Some would argue that this is exactly the point of the phrase.

So it's not capitalism at all. It's something else.

Undue influence of individuals with power (via money or other mechanisms) is hardly unique to capitalist systems. Every socialist country has had the exact same problems with corruption and misuse of power. It's also pretty trivial to argue that such corruptions and abuses are far far more toxic under socialism because there is no "pressure relief valve" in the form of competition. Socialism is predicated on a monopsony, and over time a market with a monopsony will likely result in monopolies on the sell side. You eventually end up with no alternative to the corrupt choices.

"Late stage capitalism" is a political term that was likely created by someone that considers themselves a temporarily embarrassed bolshevik central planner.

Re: Foxconn to Build $10B Factory in U.S

#150
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I kind of halfway agree with the OP, I just wouldn't consider it a flaw of capitalism. From a capitalist point of view, blue collar jobs lost in the US to outsourcing and automation deserved to be lost. The market optimized for a better solution for consumers, and that solution was cheaper labor and automation. A true pro-capitalist party would admit that, rather than pander to coal miners and steel workers, and woul…

> The market optimized for a better solution for consumers, and that solution was cheaper labor and automation. While not optimizing for the externality that those consumers are also the labor that's displaced thus destroying their ability to consume and thus not not a better solution for consumers after all. The market is not magic, it fails often and it's very annoying to continually hear people brush off those fai…

> So yes, that is humanity, because this kind of thing is exactly what humans do: they curry for favors from government to get into protected positions to reap all the benefits.

FTFY. The problem you describe is a human problem that will happen in any system, capitalist, socialist or mix of the two. Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely. Capitalism simply provides power in a normal distribution proportional to wealth. Socialism provides power in a power law distribution and the head of that distributions constitutes absolute power.

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