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Foxconn to Build $10B Factory in U.S

wsj.com

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Re: Foxconn to Build $10B Factory in U.S

#101

Post by giarc »

WheelsAtLarge wrote: post #10

I find it hard to believe that they won't automate it to the max. They've started to do it in china, why wouldn't they do it here where labor is more expensive and the factory is brand new. Foxconn has been manufacturing for a long time and they are looking to reduce costs not increase them by building in the US. Automation is the best way. I bet the jobs are not long term. Some jobs are better than none but don't pa…

I watched a doc on the Foxconn factory that made iPhones (and other phones) and I was surprised at the amount of manual labour that went into manufacturing them.

Re: Foxconn to Build $10B Factory in U.S

#102

Post by refurb »

dragonwriter wrote: post #98
ac29 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That does not make the incentives any difference than a cash payment in exchange for building the factory. Sure it does. A state writing a check for, say $100 million dollars requires spending $100 million dollars (possibly borrowing it to do so). Giving $100 million dollars in tax reductions requires spending $0. The former may not be feasible, while the latter generally is, so the two are not equivalent.

Giving $100 million in tax incentives, conditioned on a specific act, requires just as much spending (or more, if the income from the cash payment itself would have been taxable) as giving a $100 million cash payment, with the same conditions, with no special tax treatment. That people can fail to see this may explain why these deals are politically popular, though.

There is no cash payment. The alternative to not giving the tax concession is not getting any tax revenue from the company.

Now, if you wanted to complain about companies taking the tax break and not following through, I'd agree with that.

Re: Foxconn to Build $10B Factory in U.S

#103

Post by eej71 »

monocasa wrote: post #94
eej71 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's a mistake to describe it as taxpayer financed. The text I see in the article is all about a reduced tax bill. "$1.5 billion in state income tax credits for jobs created, up to $1.35 billion in credits for capital investment and up to $150 million in sales tax exemptions on construction materials"

That's six of one, a half dozen of another given that tax rebates are a thing.

I wouldn't call it a rebate because that implies the full sticker tax bill and expected payment was already belonging to the taxing authority. You can't be rebated something back to you when it was yours to begin with.

Re: Foxconn to Build $10B Factory in U.S

#104

Post by darpa_escapee »

JeffL wrote: post #78
toomuchtodo wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_capitalism Capitalism is showing its flaws if we're paying a million dollars per job just to bring the job to our soil , although I suppose it's better then just keeping Foxconn products (or products that integrate their components) out at ports (or tariff them, like Russia with phones without a GLONASS chipset).

Many would argue that job subsidies like this are the opposite of capitalism. Under a free market, the government wouldn't be subsidizing anything.

> Many would argue that job subsidies like this are the opposite of capitalism. Under a free market, the government wouldn't be subsidizing anything.

Some would argue that this is exactly the point of the phrase.

Re: Foxconn to Build $10B Factory in U.S

#105

Post by chillwaves »

Banthum wrote: post #75
RickS wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This whole late stage capitalism transition is going to be painful. The phrase "late stage capitalism" is one I've seen crop up only in the last year or so, and mostly in the context of the subreddit of the same name. Can you recommend some reading outside of that subreddit? I find the subreddit's content narrowminded to the point that I thought it was satire at first, but I'm open to the topic in general. Especiall…

Marxists think they have a total understanding of society and economy. They don't see the future as uncertain, but rather as a series of inevitable steps that proceed towards a global communist state of society where human nature no longer applies and people are no longer self-interested. So they've got this weird verbal tic where they discuss present events as though they're historical events. After all, when you kn…

Why is Marxism a failure to understand the current and future state of economics (and the impacts of technology) but capitalism is immune to this somehow?

I don't see any substance to your post. My response would be that it is easy to see the weakness of the current system, to identify the pressure points and where it will fail, collapse. It is not as easy to see where we are going.

Because one is not good at the latter does not mean the critique of the former is illegitimate.

So can you please contribute something other than incendiary platitudes? You lower the state of discourse on this site.

ETA:

> Of course, they've been predicting this 'late stage' and inevitable 'collapse of capitalism' since the 19th century.

Are you suggesting that perhaps things have not significantly changed in regards to technology and the economy since the 19th century?

Re: Foxconn to Build $10B Factory in U.S

#106

Post by chillwaves »

malchow wrote: post #79
Banthum wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Marxists think they have a total understanding of society and economy. They don't see the future as uncertain, but rather as a series of inevitable steps that proceed towards a global communist state of society where human nature no longer applies and people are no longer self-interested. So they've got this weird verbal tic where they discuss present events as though they're historical events. After all, when you kn…

"Late stage" is, as you say, Marxist terminology that presumes a known end state. You are right to ridicule it, though downvoted you shall be.

Maybe present an argument instead of ridicule. And to encourage this behavior is equally abhorrent.

Re: Foxconn to Build $10B Factory in U.S

#107

Post by chillwaves »

ThrustVectoring wrote: post #77
Banthum wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Marxists think they have a total understanding of society and economy. They don't see the future as uncertain, but rather as a series of inevitable steps that proceed towards a global communist state of society where human nature no longer applies and people are no longer self-interested. So they've got this weird verbal tic where they discuss present events as though they're historical events. After all, when you kn…

This will get you banned, not a response.

Rightly. What's to respond to? Name calling? Sounds productive.

Re: Foxconn to Build $10B Factory in U.S

#108

Post by gnaritas »

krapp wrote: post #80
dcousens wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Therefore, you could consider the "need" for this to happen in the first place, a "late-stage" flaw of capitalism. I think you agree with the OP?

I kind of halfway agree with the OP, I just wouldn't consider it a flaw of capitalism. From a capitalist point of view, blue collar jobs lost in the US to outsourcing and automation deserved to be lost. The market optimized for a better solution for consumers, and that solution was cheaper labor and automation. A true pro-capitalist party would admit that, rather than pander to coal miners and steel workers, and woul…

> The market optimized for a better solution for consumers, and that solution was cheaper labor and automation.

While not optimizing for the externality that those consumers are also the labor that's displaced thus destroying their ability to consume and thus not not a better solution for consumers after all.

The market is not magic, it fails often and it's very annoying to continually hear people brush off those failures with the no true Scottsman fallacy. If capitalism means to you only a perfect free market then it's a meaningless term because no such thing exists and more importantly that ivory tower definition is not what people are referring to when they use the word, capitalism as implemented in the real world is what they're referring to and jumping in and claiming "that's not capitalism" adds nothing to the conversation.

So yes, that is capitalism, because this kind of thing is exactly what capitalists do: they curry for favors from government to get into protected positions to avoid competition. Capitalism is what capitalists do, and this is exactly the shit they do. Crony capitalism is still capitalism.

Re: Foxconn to Build $10B Factory in U.S

#109

Post by analyst74 »

ty_a wrote: post #11

$3 billion in subsidies for 3,000 jobs. http://www.jsonline.com/story/news/2017/07/26/scott-walker-h...

Keep in mind that it's tax rebate, so Wisconsin is not getting any of that if they didn't lure foxconn to them in the first place.

Taxpayers are actually not funding any of this.

The money is effectively taken from wherever foxconn was gonna build this factory, like China, or Mexico.

Re: Foxconn to Build $10B Factory in U.S

#110

Post by wavefunction »

syshum wrote: post #86
weberc2 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm confused about the comparison between cost per job and cost per job year. Presumably this (the Wisconsin deal) would be the better deal as the jobs presumably last more than one year?

Doubtful alot of the Recovery Act was for One Time Construction projects, like paving a road. There were also alot of one off projects like sending people out to help with Energy Efficiency in homes. There was not alot of long term stable jobs in there.

What about all the Wall Streeters bailed out? Those are long-term stable jobs, after a fashion.
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