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Sperm Count Dropping in Western World

scientificamerican.com

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Re: Sperm Count Dropping in Western World

#251

Post by losteric »

evincarofautumn wrote: post #227
highd wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our diet is full of fruits and vegetables containing thousands of complex chemicals, indistinguishable from "synthetic" chemicals, that have entered our diet far too short a time ago to have had evolutionary impact. If one wanted they could surely distill many chemicals in isolation from these naturally occurring fruits and vegetables that in concentration would have many concerning health effects. The fact that many…

This is, I’ve found, a good way to start a dialogue with people about chemophobia. If you ask someone “Which do you think is safer: artificial vanilla or vanilla extract?” they’ll often prefer the “natural” one. But vanilla extract contains exactly the same chemical (vanillin) in addition to hundreds of other compounds, many of which are known to be irritants, hepatotoxins, and carcinogens—in high enough doses. Of co…

A better example might be Tang versus cold-pressed orange juice, or Wonder Bread versus Dave's Killer Bread. Tang won't kill you, but one is clearly better.

Vanilla is definitely a trick question that exploits a blindspot - tell people about the difference and then ask the question, that's the interesting discussion.

Also, to be fair to that homeopath... their axioms are flawed but disgust at purified sewage is self-consistent with their beliefs ("less is more" and all that). I'd probably refuse too, but on the basis of numerous studies showing sewage treatment doesn't adequately remove pharmaceutical waste.

Re: Sperm Count Dropping in Western World

#252

Post by emmelaich »

hyperdunc wrote: post #246
ghostbrainalpha wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Someone clever though might be able to come up with a campaign about chemicals stealing your manhood that might resonate with conservative voters. Have you heard Alex Jones? He is telling his listeners that the government puts chemicals in the water that are turning the Frogs gay. It is funny, but ultimately might make them more receptive to real environmental cleanup legislation.

That was a typical embellishment by Alex Jones. The actual story was that the males of a certain species of frog became transsexual when exposed to Atrazine weedkiller. There was also a story going around some years ago about the same thing happening to a species of fish, but I don't recall the details. The point is that some of the chemicals we use have an effect on biology and we need to pay more attention to what…

Some reputable links.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/05/070521-sex-f...

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/estrogen-in-water...

http://www.newsweek.com/female-frogs-estrogen-hermaphrodites...

Re: Sperm Count Dropping in Western World

#253

Post by evincarofautumn »

losteric wrote: post #251
evincarofautumn wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is, I’ve found, a good way to start a dialogue with people about chemophobia. If you ask someone “Which do you think is safer: artificial vanilla or vanilla extract?” they’ll often prefer the “natural” one. But vanilla extract contains exactly the same chemical (vanillin) in addition to hundreds of other compounds, many of which are known to be irritants, hepatotoxins, and carcinogens—in high enough doses. Of co…

A better example might be Tang versus cold-pressed orange juice, or Wonder Bread versus Dave's Killer Bread. Tang won't kill you, but one is clearly better. Vanilla is definitely a trick question that exploits a blindspot - tell people about the difference and then ask the question, that's the interesting discussion. Also, to be fair to that homeopath... their axioms are flawed but disgust at purified sewage is self-…

I don’t think it’s terribly tricky, and as I said in another reply, it’s not about “nyah, I’m right and you’re wrong” but having a concrete example to branch out from. So I agree that giving the information up front would probably be better.

And there are definitely a lot of good examples to choose from—I’ve tended to go with vanilla because a lot of people are familiar with the fact that it comes in synthetic & extract forms, but aren’t clear on the difference, and may just as well prefer the synthetic because it’s cheaper or the extract because it tastes better to them.

Re: Sperm Count Dropping in Western World

#254

Post by remir »

Candles123 wrote: post #248
remir wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We would have to define what is considered "masculinity", but I would say society definitely prohibit aggressivity, especially as more people are educated and can communicate better, more women entered the work force but also the working conditions today are more comfortable. It would be interesting to compare testosterone levels of inmates versus men of the "outside" population. Inmates live in a much more aggressiv…

Isn't it more than just aggressivity? Isn't even the normal attraction and pursuit of attractive females now more or less negated/disincentivized or worse?

Not really. At least, that's not my perception. I would say, however, that the macho attitude is clearly out of date.

Re: Sperm Count Dropping in Western World

#255

Post by ak39 »

bcg1 wrote: post #43

Why are we to assume this is a bad thing, or that it is even something that won't be sorted out by natural selection?

It's not about just the number of sperms males produce. It is about the most crucial male hormone: testosterone. It's strange that the article doesn't speak about it.

If you read up on the importance of healthy testosterone levels in both males and females you'll see why we should all be very worried about disrupting that endocrine balance.

Re: Sperm Count Dropping in Western World

#256

Post by j7ake »

highd wrote: post #211
jakelarkin wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The burden of proof should obviously be reversed! Complex, synthetic chemicals in our water, food, packaging, or furniture should be assumed harmful and disallowed until it there is sufficient evidence that they are safe. Escalating trials basically. This is what we do for pharmaceutical drugs that we ingest or contact, why don't take this approach with other man-made chemicals we are adding to our immediate ecosyste…

Our diet is full of fruits and vegetables containing thousands of complex chemicals, indistinguishable from "synthetic" chemicals, that have entered our diet far too short a time ago to have had evolutionary impact. If one wanted they could surely distill many chemicals in isolation from these naturally occurring fruits and vegetables that in concentration would have many concerning health effects. The fact that many…

The scientific process has also led to chemicals such as Thalidomide to be given to pregnant women, resulting in 10000 babies born with phocomelia. The point is not to be overly confident with what you think a chemical can do to your body, even if it is approved by the FDA.

Re: Sperm Count Dropping in Western World

#257

Post by marchenko »

gozur88 wrote: post #143
jlebrech wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

genetics doesn't have to observe anything for millions of years to observe to results of evolution.

There was an article linked on HN awhile back about getting bacteria to evolve resistance to antibiotics in just a few days.

That is possible because the generation time of many bacteria can be measured in hours or minutes. The generation time in humans is ~25 years (possibly a bit higher in the western countries mentioned) So there could be hundreds of bacterial generations in a few days, but only ~2 human generations in the time period covered by this study. Selection would have to be extremely strong (the strongest ever observed by far) for the sperm count decrease to be primarily related to selection.

Re: Sperm Count Dropping in Western World

#258

Post by DomreiRoam »

Jabanga wrote: post #249
cameldrv wrote: post #72

My belief is that the primary cause is environmental chemicals, specifically Phthalates and BPA (and related chemicals). The science on this is fairly conclusive. We can show that these chemicals bind to estrogen receptors, that they're present in everyone's body, and that if you're acutely exposed to a higher dose, your testosterone goes down. In my opinion, these chemicals are having social and cultural effects bey…

>Ultimately we are in dire need of regulation of these substances, especially where there is food contact. We don't need regulation. We need consumer education (and in this gov funded programs can help) and entrepreneurship to provide the market with what it demands.

I think you need good regulation and that is difficult to achieve. Seriously you can ask the consumer to be a little knowledgeable but you can't ask all consumer to have the equivalence of master in Biology, Chemistry, Material science ... and conduct testing on their food, water, car ... when you have sophisticate actor with huge budget and can make profit by tricking consumer.

Re: Sperm Count Dropping in Western World

#259

Post by Jabanga »

DomreiRoam wrote: post #258
Jabanga wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Ultimately we are in dire need of regulation of these substances, especially where there is food contact. We don't need regulation. We need consumer education (and in this gov funded programs can help) and entrepreneurship to provide the market with what it demands.

I think you need good regulation and that is difficult to achieve. Seriously you can ask the consumer to be a little knowledgeable but you can't ask all consumer to have the equivalence of master in Biology, Chemistry, Material science ... and conduct testing on their food, water, car ... when you have sophisticate actor with huge budget and can make profit by tricking consumer.

Consumers don't need to be experts to discover organizations that use experts to create standards for safe food, and only buy products certified by said organization.

Regulation is about controlling what other people buy, which I find to be absolutely unjustifiable. If you don't want unsafe food, you should deliberately avoid it. The problem is no government or private company provides any kind of certification on this.

Re: Sperm Count Dropping in Western World

#260

Post by foldr »

WalterGR wrote: post #241
foldr wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qr2bSL5VQgM

I don't have access to YouTube at work. What is the video you're linking to? What are you trying to say by linking to that particular video?

General Jack D. Ripper talking about water fluoridation and the purity of our bodily essences in Dr. Strangelove.
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