Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Sperm Count Dropping in Western World

scientificamerican.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

241–250 of 300 posts

Re: Sperm Count Dropping in Western World

#241

Post by WalterGR »

foldr wrote: post #168
cameldrv wrote: post #72

My belief is that the primary cause is environmental chemicals, specifically Phthalates and BPA (and related chemicals). The science on this is fairly conclusive. We can show that these chemicals bind to estrogen receptors, that they're present in everyone's body, and that if you're acutely exposed to a higher dose, your testosterone goes down. In my opinion, these chemicals are having social and cultural effects bey…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qr2bSL5VQgM

I don't have access to YouTube at work. What is the video you're linking to? What are you trying to say by linking to that particular video?

Re: Sperm Count Dropping in Western World

#242

Post by evincarofautumn »

coldtea wrote: post #237
evincarofautumn wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is, I’ve found, a good way to start a dialogue with people about chemophobia. If you ask someone “Which do you think is safer: artificial vanilla or vanilla extract?” they’ll often prefer the “natural” one. But vanilla extract contains exactly the same chemical (vanillin) in addition to hundreds of other compounds, many of which are known to be irritants, hepatotoxins, and carcinogens—in high enough doses. Of co…

> Of course, it’s much harder to break people of the misconception that the provenance of a chemical (synthetic or natural) matters. If one uses contrived arguments like the one about vanilla extract, then I can see why.

Well…of course it’s contrived. Like I said, it’s a conversation starter to make people think more critically about what they mean by “natural”, “synthetic”, “safe”, and “dangerous” chemicals.

What I was getting at is that in my experience, people are generally pretty open to rational discussion about that, but not about the underlying visceral squeamishness and distrust.

Re: Sperm Count Dropping in Western World

#243

Post by jessaustin »

It's tempting to decry how we've disrupted the environment in which we live. (Apparently, since there are roughly 200 comments on that theme...)

A more interesting potential cause of the sperm drop would be the human environment changing in a beneficial way. That is, it might be that sperm production is negatively correlated with other competitive traits. If that were the case, then we would expect the availability of modern medicine to drive a reduction in sperm count, as competitive-but-previously-infertile individuals are now better able to reproduce. After all humans are a K-selected species.

Of course this is silly, because not enough time has passed for these effects to emerge in the human population. However, we do see these effects in livestock. Thoroughbred horses released into the wild would quickly die off, since female fertility has dropped precipitously in a breeding context of "if the mare runs fast enough, we'll spare no expense getting her pregnant".

Re: Sperm Count Dropping in Western World

#244

Post by chris1993 »

cameldrv wrote: post #75
mgberlin wrote: post #15

I've personally become concerned recently with the abundance of BPA and it's effect on the endocrine system of men. Between disposable water bottles, aluminum can liners, and food stored in plastic containers, there's a huge amount of exposure to this endocrine disruptor. The article doesn't mention it in particular, but I think it's worth being cautious over.

If you're specifically worried about BPA, perhaps a larger exposure is handling cash register receipts. Don't take em if you don't need em, and wash your hands before you eat anything if you do need to handle them.

BPA is apparently easily absorbed through the skin. For example: http://blogs.edf.org/health/2014/10/23/more-than-skin-deep-h...

Re: Sperm Count Dropping in Western World

#245

Post by cname »

evincarofautumn wrote: post #227
highd wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our diet is full of fruits and vegetables containing thousands of complex chemicals, indistinguishable from "synthetic" chemicals, that have entered our diet far too short a time ago to have had evolutionary impact. If one wanted they could surely distill many chemicals in isolation from these naturally occurring fruits and vegetables that in concentration would have many concerning health effects. The fact that many…

This is, I’ve found, a good way to start a dialogue with people about chemophobia. If you ask someone “Which do you think is safer: artificial vanilla or vanilla extract?” they’ll often prefer the “natural” one. But vanilla extract contains exactly the same chemical (vanillin) in addition to hundreds of other compounds, many of which are known to be irritants, hepatotoxins, and carcinogens—in high enough doses. Of co…

A "good way to start a dialogue" is by starting with a trick question and likely putting the other person on the defensive?

Re: Sperm Count Dropping in Western World

#246

Post by hyperdunc »

ghostbrainalpha wrote: post #124
cameldrv wrote: post #72

My belief is that the primary cause is environmental chemicals, specifically Phthalates and BPA (and related chemicals). The science on this is fairly conclusive. We can show that these chemicals bind to estrogen receptors, that they're present in everyone's body, and that if you're acutely exposed to a higher dose, your testosterone goes down. In my opinion, these chemicals are having social and cultural effects bey…

> Someone clever though might be able to come up with a campaign about chemicals stealing your manhood that might resonate with conservative voters. Have you heard Alex Jones? He is telling his listeners that the government puts chemicals in the water that are turning the Frogs gay. It is funny, but ultimately might make them more receptive to real environmental cleanup legislation.

That was a typical embellishment by Alex Jones. The actual story was that the males of a certain species of frog became transsexual when exposed to Atrazine weedkiller.

There was also a story going around some years ago about the same thing happening to a species of fish, but I don't recall the details.

The point is that some of the chemicals we use have an effect on biology and we need to pay more attention to what is going on. Alex Jones might be hyperbolic, but he's touching on an important topic that many supposedly more kosher news outlets barely discuss.

Re: Sperm Count Dropping in Western World

#247

Post by evincarofautumn »

cname wrote: post #245
evincarofautumn wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is, I’ve found, a good way to start a dialogue with people about chemophobia. If you ask someone “Which do you think is safer: artificial vanilla or vanilla extract?” they’ll often prefer the “natural” one. But vanilla extract contains exactly the same chemical (vanillin) in addition to hundreds of other compounds, many of which are known to be irritants, hepatotoxins, and carcinogens—in high enough doses. Of co…

A "good way to start a dialogue" is by starting with a trick question and likely putting the other person on the defensive?

…No? I wouldn’t consider it a trick question, since I’m not trying to “catch” them or anything. The answer doesn’t even really matter. If we’re talking about “chemicals”, I think it’s a reasonable example to bring up.

That is, it’s not about being right or wrong, but making people think more deeply about a topic that I care about.

Something I used to do that did make people defensive & dismissive was to try to be technically correct, shit like “everything is chemicals”—which is true, but that’s not the meaning of “chemicals” under discussion, so it’s just smug and pedantic.

Re: Sperm Count Dropping in Western World

#248

Post by Candles123 »

remir wrote: post #215
candles12345 wrote: post #184

Could this just be due to maturation in an environment that prohibits and goes against masculinity to large extent?

We would have to define what is considered "masculinity", but I would say society definitely prohibit aggressivity, especially as more people are educated and can communicate better, more women entered the work force but also the working conditions today are more comfortable. It would be interesting to compare testosterone levels of inmates versus men of the "outside" population. Inmates live in a much more aggressiv…

Isn't it more than just aggressivity? Isn't even the normal attraction and pursuit of attractive females now more or less negated/disincentivized or worse?

Re: Sperm Count Dropping in Western World

#249

Post by Jabanga »

cameldrv wrote: post #72

My belief is that the primary cause is environmental chemicals, specifically Phthalates and BPA (and related chemicals). The science on this is fairly conclusive. We can show that these chemicals bind to estrogen receptors, that they're present in everyone's body, and that if you're acutely exposed to a higher dose, your testosterone goes down. In my opinion, these chemicals are having social and cultural effects bey…

>Ultimately we are in dire need of regulation of these substances, especially where there is food contact.

We don't need regulation. We need consumer education (and in this gov funded programs can help) and entrepreneurship to provide the market with what it demands.

Re: Sperm Count Dropping in Western World

#250

Post by emmelaich »

cameldrv wrote: post #72

My belief is that the primary cause is environmental chemicals, specifically Phthalates and BPA (and related chemicals). The science on this is fairly conclusive. We can show that these chemicals bind to estrogen receptors, that they're present in everyone's body, and that if you're acutely exposed to a higher dose, your testosterone goes down. In my opinion, these chemicals are having social and cultural effects bey…

Not only those chemicals but https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenoestrogen and endocrine disruptors generally.

Palm Oil and Triclosan are everywhere.

Post reply on HN