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Sperm Count Dropping in Western World

scientificamerican.com

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Re: Sperm Count Dropping in Western World

#151

Post by naravara »

theptip wrote: post #117
kindadumb wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"be careful in doing your review." Says the lazy poster who just made a bunch of claims himself and didn't cite anything!

The burden of proof is on the one making unsupported claims, not on the one questioning the unsupported claims. (It's tedious to post supporting studies on every post, so there's nothing nefarious about claims being initially unsupported.) I do agree that the "be careful..." comment is perhaps open to being interpreted as snarky, though it's always hard to infer the intent in a forum such as this.

>The burden of proof is on the one making unsupported claims, not on the one questioning the unsupported claims.

When public health issues are concerned, the burden of proof is on the ones saying exposure does not present any risks worth worrying about. The FDA doesn't usually come in with the approach that we should just try everything out and see how it goes.

Re: Sperm Count Dropping in Western World

#152

Post by 13of40 »

jxramos wrote: post #140
nate_meurer wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I may pick a nit: there are no pills in sewage streams. We're talking drugs in solution or suspension (the term "dissolved solids" is used in the water treatment industry). Drugs can very difficult to remove, and water treatment facilities are only able to remove roughly half [ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/only-half-of-drug... ].

I thought a lot of pharmaceuticals wind up in water supplies because when we take pills only part of the mass is used in the body, the rest stays in the blood stream, passes the kidneys, and is removed fairly intact into the urine thereby entering our water supply at the next voiding of the bladder.

I think the parent was pointing out that you can't just run the resulting urine through a sieve to filter it.

Re: Sperm Count Dropping in Western World

#153

Post by eli_gottlieb »

wonderwonder wrote: post #141
ak39 wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's disturbing indeed. What's the best approach to replacing drinking water to avoid all of this?

I think the best you can do in regards to tap water is some kind of filter. Effectiveness probably improves with cost. I have recently switched to getting 5 gallon water jugs delivered. Costs me about $60 per month. Not an optimal solution but I have no other real cure.

This sounds like living in a Third World country.

Re: Sperm Count Dropping in Western World

#154

Post by [deleted] »

naravara wrote: post #151
theptip wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The burden of proof is on the one making unsupported claims, not on the one questioning the unsupported claims. (It's tedious to post supporting studies on every post, so there's nothing nefarious about claims being initially unsupported.) I do agree that the "be careful..." comment is perhaps open to being interpreted as snarky, though it's always hard to infer the intent in a forum such as this.

>The burden of proof is on the one making unsupported claims, not on the one questioning the unsupported claims. When public health issues are concerned, the burden of proof is on the ones saying exposure does not present any risks worth worrying about. The FDA doesn't usually come in with the approach that we should just try everything out and see how it goes.

[deleted]

Re: Sperm Count Dropping in Western World

#155

Post by EliRivers »

naravara wrote: post #151
theptip wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The burden of proof is on the one making unsupported claims, not on the one questioning the unsupported claims. (It's tedious to post supporting studies on every post, so there's nothing nefarious about claims being initially unsupported.) I do agree that the "be careful..." comment is perhaps open to being interpreted as snarky, though it's always hard to infer the intent in a forum such as this.

>The burden of proof is on the one making unsupported claims, not on the one questioning the unsupported claims. When public health issues are concerned, the burden of proof is on the ones saying exposure does not present any risks worth worrying about. The FDA doesn't usually come in with the approach that we should just try everything out and see how it goes.

It's low frequency radio waves from submarines. No, wait, it's copies of Jane Austen novels, that's what causing the problem. Hang on; it's headphones being worn by people near you. That's what doing it. Wait one; it's the after-effects of that landfill of ET game cartridges.

If you disagree, have you got any proof that these aren't the causes? Otherwise I guess it's start removing Jane Austen novels from the libraries.

Re: Sperm Count Dropping in Western World

#156

Post by Raphmedia »

nate_meurer wrote: post #118
Raphmedia wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even worst is all the extra female hormones coming from birth control pills and livestock (mostly milk cows) that are not getting filtered out of by water providers.

If I may pick a nit: there are no pills in sewage streams. We're talking drugs in solution or suspension (the term "dissolved solids" is used in the water treatment industry). Drugs can very difficult to remove, and water treatment facilities are only able to remove roughly half [ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/only-half-of-drug... ].

Urine, not pills. Urine is filled with hormone and from what I've heard most water processing plants can't remove those completely.

In fact, one of the pills is made of urine: "The estrogen-replacement drug Premarin, prescribed to menopausal women, is made from horse urine; in fact, the drug's name is short for PREgnant MARes' urINe".

Since that the majority of female in the West are on birth control pills[1] that means that a lot of the urine in our water systems is in fact "pregnant urine".

1: "In the United States 98% of women have used birth control at some point in time and 62% of those of reproductive age are currently using birth control." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prevalence_of_birth_control

Re: Sperm Count Dropping in Western World

#157

Post by abledon »

dekhn wrote: post #74
cameldrv wrote: post #72

My belief is that the primary cause is environmental chemicals, specifically Phthalates and BPA (and related chemicals). The science on this is fairly conclusive. We can show that these chemicals bind to estrogen receptors, that they're present in everyone's body, and that if you're acutely exposed to a higher dose, your testosterone goes down. In my opinion, these chemicals are having social and cultural effects bey…

The linkage between consumption of these chemicals, and their exact nature of harm, is not well established- it's not "fairly conclusive" at all. What we have is a bunch of in vitro and in vivo studies, but not actual epidemiological evidence of the quality required to make rational policy decisions. If you believe otherwise, I'm happy to ready any high quality studies you can find. Pleaes don't just cherry pick a fe…

And remember 50% of published scientific studies can't be successfully reproduced! 100% confidence.

Re: Sperm Count Dropping in Western World

#158

Post by tajen »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #85
scottLobster wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that this decline apparently started in 1973, I'd say they're probably not the deciding factor.

I feel like something happened in the early 70s that just made progress slow way down. I keep seeing bad trends start in the 1970s - like stagnant wage growth (1971), increased inequality (1971) etc...

...and petrol shock, particularly in Europe. And sexual liberation. Time to study the correlations: http://www.tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations

Re: Sperm Count Dropping in Western World

#159

Post by wonderwonder »

ncallaway wrote: post #145
wonderwonder wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the best you can do in regards to tap water is some kind of filter. Effectiveness probably improves with cost. I have recently switched to getting 5 gallon water jugs delivered. Costs me about $60 per month. Not an optimal solution but I have no other real cure.

How do to test and validate the quality of the delivered bottled water? My understanding – and it's a shallow understanding – was that bottled water was less regulated and monitored than tap water. Is there a source you can use to get the testing done on the bottled water you're having delivered?

The vendor I use is Zephyrhills. They have a report online.

https://www.nestle-watersna.com/asset-library/Documents/ZH_B...

Re: Sperm Count Dropping in Western World

#160

Post by dekhn »

kindadumb wrote: post #104
dekhn wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The linkage between consumption of these chemicals, and their exact nature of harm, is not well established- it's not "fairly conclusive" at all. What we have is a bunch of in vitro and in vivo studies, but not actual epidemiological evidence of the quality required to make rational policy decisions. If you believe otherwise, I'm happy to ready any high quality studies you can find. Pleaes don't just cherry pick a fe…

"be careful in doing your review." Says the lazy poster who just made a bunch of claims himself and didn't cite anything!

I'm not being lazy. I am saying there is no evidence showing what the person claims. Do you want me to cite a non-existent paper?
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