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Sperm Count Dropping in Western World

scientificamerican.com

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Re: Sperm Count Dropping in Western World

#71
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this theory was correct the males in India and China would be affected more than males in the western world.

Not if population density is the trigger. How could the body evolve to be aware of national boundaries?

North America has low population density relative to most of the world.

Probably even more so if you do some sort of aggregation of the density that people live at rather than averaging population across land area. Suburbia and such.

Re: Sperm Count Dropping in Western World

#72
My belief is that the primary cause is environmental chemicals, specifically Phthalates and BPA (and related chemicals). The science on this is fairly conclusive. We can show that these chemicals bind to estrogen receptors, that they're present in everyone's body, and that if you're acutely exposed to a higher dose, your testosterone goes down. In my opinion, these chemicals are having social and cultural effects beyond sperm counts. As individuals, there are some things you can do, but some studies have shown that about the best you can do with personal actions is a 50% reduction. The most effective things are to try not to handle store receipts on thermal paper, and wash your hands after you do, and avoid anything that has been microwaved in plastic. Generally reducing heavily processed and fast food is next, because you can't know about things like ingredients flowing through PVC tubing that leaches Phthalates.

Ultimately we are in dire need of regulation of these substances, especially where there is food contact. I'm not very optimistic under trump. Someone clever though might be able to come up with a campaign about chemicals stealing your manhood that might resonate with conservative voters.

Re: Sperm Count Dropping in Western World

#73
People offering human-centric explanations like cell phones: Note also that the sperm quality of dogs has decreased 30% since 1988.

https://elpais.com/elpais/2016/08/09/ciencia/1470755907_2432...

https://www.nature.com/articles/srep31281

This suggests its more environmental, chemical, diet-based, etc.

Re: Sperm Count Dropping in Western World

#74

My belief is that the primary cause is environmental chemicals, specifically Phthalates and BPA (and related chemicals). The science on this is fairly conclusive. We can show that these chemicals bind to estrogen receptors, that they're present in everyone's body, and that if you're acutely exposed to a higher dose, your testosterone goes down. In my opinion, these chemicals are having social and cultural effects bey…

The linkage between consumption of these chemicals, and their exact nature of harm, is not well established- it's not "fairly conclusive" at all. What we have is a bunch of in vitro and in vivo studies, but not actual epidemiological evidence of the quality required to make rational policy decisions.

If you believe otherwise, I'm happy to ready any high quality studies you can find. Pleaes don't just cherry pick a few studies, be careful in doing your review.

Re: Sperm Count Dropping in Western World

#75

I've personally become concerned recently with the abundance of BPA and it's effect on the endocrine system of men. Between disposable water bottles, aluminum can liners, and food stored in plastic containers, there's a huge amount of exposure to this endocrine disruptor. The article doesn't mention it in particular, but I think it's worth being cautious over.

If you're specifically worried about BPA, perhaps a larger exposure is handling cash register receipts. Don't take em if you don't need em, and wash your hands before you eat anything if you do need to handle them.

Re: Sperm Count Dropping in Western World

#76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For what it's worth, the limited research on that shows a tenuous relationship, and the reduction in sperm count is not apparently occurring in the same way in non-western countries which are exposed to as much (if not more) Bisphenol A. In addition, the analysis appears to deal with the mid 1970s onward, whereas Bisphenol A has been used commercially to cure resins and plastics since 1957, with a quick uptake in usa…

What do you mean when you say that non-western countries are "exposed" to BPA as much, or more, than the US? There is a large difference between merely touching a product that has BPA in it and consuming BPA. Plasticizers in general are fat soluble and dissolve from a container into food quickly when heated. Which is why you shouldn't reheat anything, especially fatty foods, in plastic containers. In the West we re-h…

> In the West we re-heat everything in plastic containers. I didn't think this was as big of a thing in non-western countries.

I live in the West and I do not have a recent memory of anyone reheating anything in a plastic container or treated can. I think I saw somebody heat up one of those Kraft Dinner individual portion cups once. How many plastic containers are even considered microwave safe?. I know there are things like TV dinners.

I would think the more likely vector would be drink cans, and maybe laminated food cans after that. I see receipt paper mentioned a lot, but it's hard to tell if they mention that just for show, or because it's actually an important form of exposure. And as you mentioned, plasticizers are fat soluble; most canned beverages (aside coconut water) are not fatty, and most canned food isn't fatty either (because they don't want the fats to go rancid from the oxygen in the headspace), so I'm not sure how much leeching actually goes on with those vectors.

Re: Sperm Count Dropping in Western World

#77

People offering human-centric explanations like cell phones: Note also that the sperm quality of dogs has decreased 30% since 1988. https://elpais.com/elpais/2016/08/09/ciencia/1470755907_2432... https://www.nature.com/articles/srep31281 This suggests its more environmental, chemical, diet-based, etc.

I dunno. Just on the face of what you're saying, it's probably worth pointing out that dogs also spend a lot of time around devices used by humans. So what about e.g. wild dogs?

Re: Sperm Count Dropping in Western World

#78

My belief is that the primary cause is environmental chemicals, specifically Phthalates and BPA (and related chemicals). The science on this is fairly conclusive. We can show that these chemicals bind to estrogen receptors, that they're present in everyone's body, and that if you're acutely exposed to a higher dose, your testosterone goes down. In my opinion, these chemicals are having social and cultural effects bey…

Want an interesting read? Go to your city water providers website and read up on all the pollutants they are over recommended levels on. Then look at the pollutants they are over the legal limit on.

We assume that the water in our taps is safe to drink but there are often a myriad of tests that our utility companies are failing.

For example, I live in a relatively well to do suburb and my utility is over the recommended limit on 2 carcinogens, and chlorate which damages the thyroid. In addition they have been over the legal limit for Trihalomethanes, another carcinogen since 2014

Re: Sperm Count Dropping in Western World

#79

People offering human-centric explanations like cell phones: Note also that the sperm quality of dogs has decreased 30% since 1988. https://elpais.com/elpais/2016/08/09/ciencia/1470755907_2432... https://www.nature.com/articles/srep31281 This suggests its more environmental, chemical, diet-based, etc.

Dogs often mimic the lifestyles of their owner, therefore building off of rsync's comment it would suggest that could also be linked to rising obesity rates. Although chemical and environmental causes likely also play a factor. I'm thinking along the lines of "all of the above"; poor health regardless of what causes it will lead to lowered fertility

Re: Sperm Count Dropping in Western World

#80

People offering human-centric explanations like cell phones: Note also that the sperm quality of dogs has decreased 30% since 1988. https://elpais.com/elpais/2016/08/09/ciencia/1470755907_2432... https://www.nature.com/articles/srep31281 This suggests its more environmental, chemical, diet-based, etc.

I dunno. Just on the face of what you're saying, it's probably worth pointing out that dogs also spend a lot of time around devices used by humans. So what about e.g. wild dogs?

laptops can make your balls overheat and cause problems, I remember that being an actual problem.
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