Sperm Count Dropping in Western World • Hacker News Board

Re: Sperm Count Dropping in Western World

#101

Post by scottLobster » Wed, Jul 26, 2017, 4:59 PM UTC

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #85

scottLobster wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that this decline apparently started in 1973, I'd say they're probably not the deciding factor.

I feel like something happened in the early 70s that just made progress slow way down. I keep seeing bad trends start in the 1970s - like stagnant wage growth (1971), increased inequality (1971) etc...

Don't forget the dietary recommendations changed telling people to eat loads of carbs and avoid fat (and as a side effect, most natural sources of protein). That might be directly related to this actually.

Re: Sperm Count Dropping in Western World

#102

Post by AstralStorm » Wed, Jul 26, 2017, 5:00 PM UTC

diogenescynic wrote: post #81

cameldrv wrote: post #72

My belief is that the primary cause is environmental chemicals, specifically Phthalates and BPA (and related chemicals). The science on this is fairly conclusive. We can show that these chemicals bind to estrogen receptors, that they're present in everyone's body, and that if you're acutely exposed to a higher dose, your testosterone goes down. In my opinion, these chemicals are having social and cultural effects bey…

And all the flame retardants and anti-stick coatings on practically every surface we touch and interact with all day, every day. These are all hormone disrupters.

Not everyone does and there would be much higher variance if so. (Different building codes, food handling practices etc.)

Re: Sperm Count Dropping in Western World

#103

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Jul 26, 2017, 5:01 PM UTC

simonsarris wrote: post #73

People offering human-centric explanations like cell phones: Note also that the sperm quality of dogs has decreased 30% since 1988. https://elpais.com/elpais/2016/08/09/ciencia/1470755907_2432... https://www.nature.com/articles/srep31281 This suggests its more environmental, chemical, diet-based, etc.

[deleted]

Re: Sperm Count Dropping in Western World

#104

Post by kindadumb » Wed, Jul 26, 2017, 5:01 PM UTC

dekhn wrote: post #74

cameldrv wrote: post #72

My belief is that the primary cause is environmental chemicals, specifically Phthalates and BPA (and related chemicals). The science on this is fairly conclusive. We can show that these chemicals bind to estrogen receptors, that they're present in everyone's body, and that if you're acutely exposed to a higher dose, your testosterone goes down. In my opinion, these chemicals are having social and cultural effects bey…

The linkage between consumption of these chemicals, and their exact nature of harm, is not well established- it's not "fairly conclusive" at all. What we have is a bunch of in vitro and in vivo studies, but not actual epidemiological evidence of the quality required to make rational policy decisions. If you believe otherwise, I'm happy to ready any high quality studies you can find. Pleaes don't just cherry pick a fe…

"be careful in doing your review." Says the lazy poster who just made a bunch of claims himself and didn't cite anything!

Re: Sperm Count Dropping in Western World

#105

Post by AstralStorm » Wed, Jul 26, 2017, 5:06 PM UTC

scottLobster wrote: post #55

whalesalad wrote: post #42

Are cell phones in our pockets to blame? The effects of radiofrequency electromagnetic radiation on sperm function. – https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27601711 More info here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27076112 Also here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26949865 And here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26206279 Here too: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24982785 More fuel for the fire: https:…

Given that this decline apparently started in 1973, I'd say they're probably not the deciding factor.

But actual power lines and other total EM pollution might be. Perhaps at some point local power use (thus LF induction) exceeded safety margins afforded by physical isolation between cables and people?

Re: Sperm Count Dropping in Western World

#106

Post by AstralStorm » Wed, Jul 26, 2017, 5:08 PM UTC

jostmey wrote: post #62

accountyaccount wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are even chemicals in our brains!

I put the word "chemicals" in quotation marks because, of course, everything is a chemical. I just wanted to point out that we shouldn't pick just one chemical (e.g. BPA) and heap all the blame onto it. As a society, we have to be concerned about the potential dangers of every synthetic chemical

If it is some sort of chemical, it was introduced around 70s (later than most plastics) and is still in widespread and increasing use. Few such targets.

Re: Sperm Count Dropping in Western World

#107

Post by xiaoma » Wed, Jul 26, 2017, 5:09 PM UTC

kindadumb wrote: post #104

dekhn wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The linkage between consumption of these chemicals, and their exact nature of harm, is not well established- it's not "fairly conclusive" at all. What we have is a bunch of in vitro and in vivo studies, but not actual epidemiological evidence of the quality required to make rational policy decisions. If you believe otherwise, I'm happy to ready any high quality studies you can find. Pleaes don't just cherry pick a fe…

"be careful in doing your review." Says the lazy poster who just made a bunch of claims himself and didn't cite anything!

Welcome to HN.

As someone who's been here for over a decade (and had this account nearly that long), I can assure you this is normal behavior for the forum.

Re: Sperm Count Dropping in Western World

#108

Post by AstralStorm » Wed, Jul 26, 2017, 5:09 PM UTC

scottLobster wrote: post #101

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like something happened in the early 70s that just made progress slow way down. I keep seeing bad trends start in the 1970s - like stagnant wage growth (1971), increased inequality (1971) etc...

Don't forget the dietary recommendations changed telling people to eat loads of carbs and avoid fat (and as a side effect, most natural sources of protein). That might be directly related to this actually.

That wouldn't affect dogs as much.

Re: Sperm Count Dropping in Western World

#109

Post by nate_meurer » Wed, Jul 26, 2017, 5:13 PM UTC

kindadumb wrote: post #104

dekhn wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The linkage between consumption of these chemicals, and their exact nature of harm, is not well established- it's not "fairly conclusive" at all. What we have is a bunch of in vitro and in vivo studies, but not actual epidemiological evidence of the quality required to make rational policy decisions. If you believe otherwise, I'm happy to ready any high quality studies you can find. Pleaes don't just cherry pick a fe…

"be careful in doing your review." Says the lazy poster who just made a bunch of claims himself and didn't cite anything!

What? What exactly do you expect dekhn to cite? You expect them to prove a negative? How do you propose they do that?

GP asserted that some scary chemicals cause problems (no sarcasm intended; I find phthalates and bisphenols a bit scary myself), but provided no supporting evidence. dehkn asked for evidence. Pretty simple right?

Re: Sperm Count Dropping in Western World

#110

Post by manmal » Wed, Jul 26, 2017, 5:14 PM UTC

rubicon33 wrote: post #93

jermaustin1 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do people actually put laptops in their laps? My 12" ultra-portable sits on my desk at home/office. When commuting if I'm using it, it will sit on my backpack on my lap. My 17" laptop that is heavier than my desktop, stays on the kitchen table.

Yes, people do. I use my laptop on the couch all the time.

You should use a cushion or wood tablet in that case, e.g. Ikea has them for a couple bucks.