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Lawsuit: Sexual harassment ‘victim’ was San Francisco business rival in disguise

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Re: Lawsuit: Sexual harassment ‘victim’ was San Francisco business rival in disguise

#91

Post by BlackFly »

wand3r wrote: post #36

This world is getting so fucked up. We can't crucify people for "hitting on" or other somewhat tame behavior because we have nothing left to throw at the real offenders. Conversely, people benefit on both sides of the equation; using sex to their advantage or weaponizing allegations like this. Sexual assualt is REAL and should be punished. We need to focus on a balance between being human and being a predator. People…

Compare the definition of harassment:

   Persistent attacks and criticism causing worry and distress or deliberate pestering or annoying.
With the definition of sexual harassment:

   The making of unwanted and offensive sexual advances or of sexually offensive remarks or acts, especially by one in a superior or supervisory position or when acquiescence to such behavior is a condition of continued employment, promotion, or satisfactory evaluation.
There are really two separate definitions of sexual harassment. One is quid pro quo harassment, which is essentially just abuse of power of a sexual nature; I think everyone can agree that this should not be tolerated. The other definition is unwanted and offensive sexual advances or remarks. The problem is that this definition doesn't rise to the actual level of harassment: it doesn't need to be deliberate or persistent. If it is deliberate and persistent than it is simply harassment; the sexual nature is completely irrelevant and most people will agree it shouldn't be tolerated.

I can talk about the many bizarre and fascinating parasites that exist in the world that many people will find far more unwanted and offensive than any casual sexual joke. Surgeries, the making of some foods, the history and ongoing saga of torture, and other topics all fall in the same category. However, you will not be accused of harassment for constantly talking about how people contract Noro virus although people will generally ask you not to talk about it during a meal.

Re: Lawsuit: Sexual harassment ‘victim’ was San Francisco business rival in disguise

#92

Post by Dude2018 »

marchenko wrote: post #89
Dude2018 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about using lipstick to emulate sexual arousal? Why did they use make up doing business?

Perhaps these lipstick-wearing women were raised in a social environment where a previously supernormal stimulus (heightened lip pigmentation/smoothed glossy lip surface) is now expected as a normal aspect of professional presentation in many contexts, and they do not wish to be asked "are you feeling well?" on a regular basis.

Did not stop from fighting other things considered "normal". Truth is getting hit vs getting harassed is based on hotness of the guy.

Re: Lawsuit: Sexual harassment ‘victim’ was San Francisco business rival in disguise

#93

Post by danmaz74 »

How can an anonymous online accusation without any evidence even get considered a thing? Are we back to 16th century witch-hunts?

Whoever gives publicity to accusations like this for the clicks, without checking their sources at all, should rightfully be persecuted for defamation.

Re: Lawsuit: Sexual harassment ‘victim’ was San Francisco business rival in disguise

#94

Post by freshhawk »

arkh wrote: post #80
InclinedPlane wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK, this is not that hard, people need to understand the rules. First, the heuristics. If it would be extraordinarily awkward and/or conceivably career impacting for someone to decline a romantic advance then that advance should not be made, period, because it represents exploiting a power imbalance (even if unknowingly!) and throwing sex and romance into the situation. The only time in any scenario related to the wo…

> people need to understand the rules. 1. Be attractive. 2. Don't be unattractive. Two simple rules to not commit sexual harassment.

While the construction of this old joke is admittedly good, using it as an argument advertises the fact that you view women as prizes rather than as people. It is complaining that they have a say in who they enter into relationships with. Or it's complaining about the fact that humans are more attracted to attractive people, which is how we define the word "attractive" in the first place.

I'd avoid it generally, as you just failed both your stated rules by repeating it.

Re: Lawsuit: Sexual harassment ‘victim’ was San Francisco business rival in disguise

#95

Post by jstanley »

jpttsn wrote: post #68
Pica_soO wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you accuse somebody of a crime s/he didnt commit- and it comes out, you should suffer the same sentence - circumstances of the person you accused would have received as sentence.

Sounds like eye-for-an-eye logic. Why the same? Also, just for rape, or for any crime? If I falsely accuse the President of treason, and he is found innocent, should I be convicted of treason?

Reasonable doubt that X is guilty is not the same as proof beyond reasonable doubt that X's accuser is guilty.

There can be reasonable doubt in both directions.

Re: Lawsuit: Sexual harassment ‘victim’ was San Francisco business rival in disguise

#96

Post by Bakary »

Dude2018 wrote: post #84
thereare5lights wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh stop spewing bs about sexual harassment as "hitting on" people. The accusations against the VCs McClure and Pollock involved groping or worse.

What about using lipstick to emulate sexual arousal? Why did they use make up doing business?

I don't think makeup is a good example, because it's often a damned if you do, damned if you don't type of situation. Wear makeup and you will be accused of boldness or manipulative tendencies, don't wear it and your appearance will be criticized and commented on. Based on my experience the former is the preferable choice.

Re: Lawsuit: Sexual harassment ‘victim’ was San Francisco business rival in disguise

#97

Post by jpttsn »

int_19h wrote: post #76
jpttsn wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like eye-for-an-eye logic. Why the same? Also, just for rape, or for any crime? If I falsely accuse the President of treason, and he is found innocent, should I be convicted of treason?

There is some logic to it, in a sense that, the more serious the false accusation, the higher the potential damage to the victim - so penalty must also be proportionally higher. (Note that it didn't say "same crime", only "same sentence".)

It's clear to me that/why people want punishment to be more severe, and proportional to the seriousness.

Perhaps I'm being too literal and the call for "same sentence" is just for effect.

Re: Lawsuit: Sexual harassment ‘victim’ was San Francisco business rival in disguise

#98

Post by [deleted] »

AlexCoventry wrote: post #66
microcolonel wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, they're basically industrial-scale defamation without recourse, trial, or evidence. From a game-theoretic perspective, you would be wrong not to take advantage of it to burn your competitors. If it hasn't dawned on you, this is a political strategy, not a tool for the downtrodden. I have quite literally heard people talking about these things as "the way we'll close the gender participation gap", as in, they'll…

> have quite literally heard people talking about these things as "the way we'll close the gender participation gap", as in, they'll burn men's careers until things equal out. Where? Any transcripts/ video?

[deleted]

Re: Lawsuit: Sexual harassment ‘victim’ was San Francisco business rival in disguise

#99

Post by mquander »

InclinedPlane wrote: post #74
maruhan2 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Whoever is making a move should be hyper conscious of any signs of discomfort on the part of the recipient and should go the extra mile (or ten miles) to provide many more easily available "outs" than normal. In normal dating situations if an advance is not welcomed that's fine, two peers had an interaction, someone made a minor mistake, and probably no one will get hurt. In a dating situation with all the complexit…

Still wrong. The onus is on the person with more authority, power, or privilege. There is a responsibility to educate yourself if you are in such a position (and most men are, in some way or another, in the tech industry). It's 2017, there's no excuse for being ignorant any more. If you're a "flirty" person, for example, that's fine, but you need to go the extra mile to make people feel safe. Be on the lookout for no…

You know, the tech industry has a lot of people on the autism spectrum, and not everyone has hardware-accelerated mind modules to identify non-verbal forms of discomfort in realtime. Nor do I think that should be a hard job requirement for writing computer programs.

If people are feeling uncomfortable but not speaking up, they are going to have to come to terms with the fact that a large segment of the programmer community is going to be incapable of identifying their discomfort when interacting with them. Getting them to speak up might be a more tractable problem than trying to teach everyone to identify non-verbal subtext.

(I agree with your comment insofar as it applies to people who are capable of doing it, and I aspire to being able to interact with people so fluently.)

Re: Lawsuit: Sexual harassment ‘victim’ was San Francisco business rival in disguise

#100

Post by jpttsn »

xor1 wrote: post #87
jpttsn wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like eye-for-an-eye logic. Why the same? Also, just for rape, or for any crime? If I falsely accuse the President of treason, and he is found innocent, should I be convicted of treason?

False accusers are harming real victims, too. >If I falsely accuse the President of treason, and he is found innocent, should I be convicted of treason? Please go into detail in regards to how this hypothetical scenario would unfold. I can't wait to hear your explanation for how some random person accusing the President of treason could possibly lead to any sort of trial.

I really can't tell what you want me to explain or what your point is, but I'd love to help.
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