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SEC Issues Report Concluding DAO Tokens, a Digital Asset, Were Securities

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Re: SEC Issues Report Concluding DAO Tokens, a Digital Asset, Were Securities

#181

Post by clarky07 »

SolarNet wrote: post #91
oneplane wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? Nobody is forcing crypto currenency on anyone. I get that registered companies might have some other deal with the govenment and with hacker organisations, but a free and open (and non-country-bound) system should really not be 'managed' by some random organisation in a random country.

The SEC exists to prevent fraud. It's about people having a choice between truthful investments. These companies are allowed to operate as they claim they are with relatively little oversight. What the SEC regulates is a company claiming they will use investment to do X and then the company does Y or keeps it for themselves. Which is also known as fraud. Like the DEA (an example of something unjust), Secret Service,…

And that's why hundreds of bankers went to jail after the financial crisis. oh wait, no, that didn't happen.

Re: SEC Issues Report Concluding DAO Tokens, a Digital Asset, Were Securities

#182

Post by memossy »

As a hedge fund manager who just added a token to one of our projects (to help create a resource to combat extremism naturally), I wrote up my thoughts here:

https://medium.com/ananas-blog/sec-on-icos-securities-are-se...

A general rule of tokens is that if they promise a profit they are a scam and if they promise a share of profits a security.

The closer they are to API keys the better in terms of non-securitability.

It is likely that the token usage will gradually bifurcate between those that are "property" and scarce digital assets like Bitcoin (or rarepepes) and those that are API keys.

For our charitable project we've tried to incorporate elements of both to create an interesting token economy to build a useful resource.

Hopefully there will be more of these attempts, both registered as securities and that fall outside of this classification.

Re: SEC Issues Report Concluding DAO Tokens, a Digital Asset, Were Securities

#183

Post by wmf »

hellbanner wrote: post #27

In another thread commenters speculated that ICO hacks were coming from inside jobs.. does this new SEC report change how the government would handle that? Is fraud of securities different from fraud over imaginary coins now?

The SEC has already prosecuted a few Bitcoin-related fraud cases even though they don't regulate Bitcoin itself.

Re: SEC Issues Report Concluding DAO Tokens, a Digital Asset, Were Securities

#184

Post by KirinDave »

Romanulus wrote: post #158
KirinDave wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Because an ICO can be created at no cost Except the cost to the participants who later have wasted money because the ICO contract was exploitable... At the current rate major losses are as perceptible as all successes. Maybe the industry needs some externally imposed speed bumps from SOME authority until folks can get their acts in gear?

... and currency can be created at the cost of the future unborn generations. Your move, KirinDave.

I do not understand. Sorry.

Re: SEC Issues Report Concluding DAO Tokens, a Digital Asset, Were Securities

#185

Post by clarky07 »

Asdfbla wrote: post #154
Jabanga wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>but to protect U.S. citizens from being scammed all the time. US citizens shouldn't be treated like children that need to protected from their own stupidity.

Extreme libertarian views like yours have been rejected almost everywhere in the world. Maybe it's your opinion that allowing scammers to manipulate people is their basic right, but no one seems to share that sentiment.

Can't we simply punish the scammers, so as to warn others not to do the same? Generally speaking the regulation of the markets doesn't do all that much to protect individual investors. We just (sometimes, rarely) punish people after the fact. How many regular investors got screwed in 2008 and how many people went to jail?

Re: SEC Issues Report Concluding DAO Tokens, a Digital Asset, Were Securities

#186

Post by regulation_d »

ThrustVectoring wrote: post #180
smokeyj wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why shouldn't mom-and-pop get the choice to invest in SEC regulated companies? If you like what the SEC has to offer, you can keep it. Taking away that choice seems paternalistic at best, corrupt at worst.

Should they also have the choice to take non-FDA approved drugs?

Securities is my go-to example of government regulation that has a net-positive market effect. Whatever we lose in market efficiency we more than make up for in market confidence.

Re: SEC Issues Report Concluding DAO Tokens, a Digital Asset, Were Securities

#187

Post by abritinthebay »

brooklyntribe wrote: post #155
josh2600 wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Comments like this are ludicrous. Do you really think the SEC doesn't understand distributed ledgers or ethereum contracts? Second, do you think anyone has technical staff that are capable of writing safe contracts in Solidity (Parity wallet would suggest not...). In short, the idea that people must be incompetent because they're in the government is pretty ludicrous. The SEC is consistently one of the best technical…

Actually hung out with a JP Morgan Chase banker the other day. Big into crypto. He said the SEC had no clue what was going on. They leave at 5 PM, and head home to wife's and kids, and mortgages. While the "kids" are hacking, micro-dosing, and working 100 weeks. And they are all of 17. It's not in their world. A 55 year old banker is not hacking solidity contracts at 3 AM. No way.

There are occasionally brilliant coders at 17 who produce things of beauty. It's wonderful to behold. They are rare.

Sometimes the fire of youth produces fantastic ideas that change our world. Their initial efforts, though raw and non-optimal, show a beautiful gleam that - through effort by more seasoned developers - is polished into something beautiful. These are more common, but still rare.

Most 17 year old coders however produce well intentioned awfulness that is technically poor, non-optimal, has security holes, and if it handles edge cases at all does so poorly - and that's the good stuff.

The kids work is valuable but mostly to them - they're still learning.. usually still learning the basics too.

Re: SEC Issues Report Concluding DAO Tokens, a Digital Asset, Were Securities

#188

Post by taysic »

ilaksh wrote: post #82

The SEC should show that it protects everyone's rights and not just large firms with piles of cash to pay to them and to pay expensive lawyers. Otherwise we have to assume that this is largely about trying to tax things. The way they can do this is by making a real effort to update their technical, documentation, and regulatory programs. Is there a straightforward way to do an Edgar filing that doesn't require a bunc…

Are you genuinely asking what the value of the SEC is? I generally am pro low taxes but the crypto environment right now is so flush with scams that it explains itself

Re: SEC Issues Report Concluding DAO Tokens, a Digital Asset, Were Securities

#189

Post by wuliwong »

josh2600 wrote: post #142
ilaksh wrote: post #82

The SEC should show that it protects everyone's rights and not just large firms with piles of cash to pay to them and to pay expensive lawyers. Otherwise we have to assume that this is largely about trying to tax things. The way they can do this is by making a real effort to update their technical, documentation, and regulatory programs. Is there a straightforward way to do an Edgar filing that doesn't require a bunc…

Comments like this are ludicrous. Do you really think the SEC doesn't understand distributed ledgers or ethereum contracts? Second, do you think anyone has technical staff that are capable of writing safe contracts in Solidity (Parity wallet would suggest not...). In short, the idea that people must be incompetent because they're in the government is pretty ludicrous. The SEC is consistently one of the best technical…

How is it "ludicrous" for memossy to ask a question?

In short, the idea that people must be incompetent because they're in the government is pretty ludicrous.

The comment did not express that. It was mainly about transparency and communication.

Re: SEC Issues Report Concluding DAO Tokens, a Digital Asset, Were Securities

#190

Post by dmoy »

consz wrote: post #167
brooklyntribe wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually hung out with a JP Morgan Chase banker the other day. Big into crypto. He said the SEC had no clue what was going on. They leave at 5 PM, and head home to wife's and kids, and mortgages. While the "kids" are hacking, micro-dosing, and working 100 weeks. And they are all of 17. It's not in their world. A 55 year old banker is not hacking solidity contracts at 3 AM. No way.

Why should one believe a 17 year old, working 100 hour weeks and micro-dosing (really, what does this have to do with anything?) knows or is more capable than a 55 year old?

For that matter, I'd be skeptical about what any bank employee says about the SEC lol. My mom had worked at a big bank for decades and is not always saying nice stuff... (But in context it's cus they make her life harder)
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