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Cafeteria workers at Facebook struggle to make ends meet

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Re: Cafeteria workers at Facebook struggle to make ends meet

#521

Everybody here is focusing on real estate. (because young wealthy programmers and older poorer workers have a shared interest in cheap real estate) But I'm really interested in how HN feels about this section: “I felt more secure at my other job. You didn’t have people looking down at you,” Nicole said. Now she works at cafeterias with names like “Epic” and “Living the Dream”, and the distance between the two classes…

>>said Nicole of the Facebook employees. “We don’t live the dream. The techies are living the dream. It’s for them.”

Im afraid this is no longer about perks at Facebook. To me this looks release of frustration about making bad life and career choices.

There are no easy solutions to these peoples problems.

The only ray of hope for this people is the modern day economic ecosystem and overall internet place has made it easy to retrain yourself for better paying jobs. Its going to be hard, time consuming and brutal. But that is the only way out.

Re: Cafeteria workers at Facebook struggle to make ends meet

#522
post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kansas City, and it's nearly infinite suburbs, would be incredibly comfortable at 75k. Could easily afford a nice home in one of the bustling urban neighborhoods, or a 2,000+ sq ft. in the burbs, or something with a few acres out in the country but near an interstate for commuting.

Ahh, could you recommend any specific neighborhoods? I'm starting to seriously consider Kansas City, coincidentally enough.

My knowledge of what neighborhoods are currently great is a little rusty. I moved away from the area for a while, and now I'm one of those people with acreage outside of the city.

But when I was in the city full time, my favorite area was around 39th street just over the state line on the Missouri side. Walking distance to quite a few restaurants, coffeeshops, bookstores, and other funky shops.

Another fun place was the area around the Plaza. Some nice old apartments and houses. Walking distance from the Nelson art museum, the Plaza stores and restaurants, and fairly close to the bars in Westport. Westport is a fun place to hang out, but it's a little dodgy in terms of living there. Lots of petty crime, and a sad uptick in shootings of late. But when you're in your twenties, it's one of the most fun places in the city. At least it was for me.

One thing which changed after I left was the revitalization of downtown. Used to be dead, and now you can have a semblance of urban living there. Lots of lofts and townhouses available, and in walking distance of the new bar / restaurant district, plus the convention center and the new performing arts hall. Related is the River Market area. It's on the edge of downtown with lots of rennovated apartments & lofts. Has the main farmers market, and the usual bars, restaurants, and odd stores. And is very walkable. The new streetcars have a very limited route, but River Market and Downtown are covered (or will be).

The place I used to live now has a name: Crossroads Arts District. Stretches between downtown and the area around Crown Center. Has lots of art galleries, predictably enough, and all the other usual stuff. Holds a street art & food festival (First Fridays) once a month. Streetcar service will be coming soon-ish, but not quite there yet.

There's also the West Bottoms. Used to be a swamp, then was a warehouse / industrial district, then was abandoned (when I was there), and now is an up & coming area with the usual lofts and stuff. Used to be one of my favorite areas of the city due to the interesting abandoned factories and how quiet it was despite being in the middle of the city. Probably a lot of fun now.

I don't know much about the burbs. Johnson County (suburbia on the Kansas side) was great for big box stores but was otherwise a black hole for me. However, one great thing about Johnson County is that it has a Microcenter and it's glorious. Need a Raspberry Pi Zero + a handful of sensors for a project and need it now? Done.

Though speaking of the burbs, if you have a little extra money for buying, check out some of the inner ring suburbs. Places like Leawood. Some beautiful houses with old huge trees. Some of the more expensive neighborhoods in the city, but cheap compared to the Valley.

If you want to get off the beaten path, and are interested in fixer uppers, I always kinda liked Kansas City, Kansas. There are some neat old homes there on bluffs overlooking the Kansas River. And, last time I looked, many of those neighborhoods haven't gentrified, so there are bargains to be had. The neighborhoods are rough in spots, but there's something about the old blue collar neighborhoods that I always liked.

KCK and the area around Bonner Springs can also give you some country living on the edge of the city. There's still some farms left and still some acreage while being 10-15 minutes away from the city center. The only risk is that you buy your perfect quiet piece of land and then get swamped with development a few years later, but I suppose that's a risk for any city's edge.

Another good place for quiet small town-ish living while being very close to the city center is Parkville, MO. It's adjacent to the city. Probably one of the first KC suburbs. The town's center is Victorian and has a vibrant downtown with the typical Main Street USA feel. Also has a huge riverfront park on the Missouri River. The latter is quite nice because in much of KC, they've turned their back on the river and there's not much in terms of waterfront parks. This will be changing in the upcoming years with parks planned. But for now, there's not many.

One last place to mention is Lawrence, Kansas. It's about 30-40 minutes away from the city, and is the home for Kansas University. It's an absolutely wonderful place to live. Reminds me of Austin but without the crowds and high prices. Very vibrant downtown and music scene. Low crime. Very walkable for both the neighborhoods and in terms of hiking trails that start in the city. Tons of interesting old houses. Extremely laid back. Surprisingly hilly. One of my favorite places on earth.

Didn't mean to write a novel but that should give you some places to start looking. I spent much of my twenties in KC before heading out west in the dot-com boom, and then came back ten years later when I wanted some quiet times. I would sometimes be jealous of other larger cities, but KC was in many respects perfect for me. Unpretentious, unjudgemental (outside of the burbs, of course), and was a live and let live place from every angle. The biggest downside of KC is that a car is essential. I've tried to point out walkable neighborhoods, but public transportation is mostly limited to bus. No metro, no light rail (beyond a couple of miles of the streetcars). And a level of sprawl which is enormous. I suppose with Uber / Lyft these days, a personally owned car isn't quite so required now. But it was mandatory in my day.

On the plus side for cars, traffic is usually not too terrible outside of rush hour. And if you end up living in the city center and working in the suburbs, there's a good chance you'll be going opposite to the huge traffic flow, and even rush hour will be easier. That's what happened to me.

If you end up coming here, I think you'll like it. If I can help any further with your search, just let me know.

Re: Cafeteria workers at Facebook struggle to make ends meet

#523
post #513

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uhaul 2-3000k Hotel during moving 80/night * 6 days = 480 fuel for other vehicle on trip (presumes two cars, and uhaul can haul one) = 350 food on trip = 720 dollars (assuming 40/meal (assumes $8/pp) and you eat fast food) 3 nights of hotel upon arrival = 300 (more expensive in city.) 2 months of food on arrival for a family of 5 for two months, assuming you can cook at home 5 (head) * 3 (meals) * 4 (dollars per pers…

I totally disagree with your numbers. $800 is a lot for rent. We're assuming we're going somewhere cheap. Even that $500 is high if you're moving to the middle of the country. You can find a 2 or 3 bedroom rental at $500 in even "bigger" cities like Oklahoma City or Albuquerque. That's a huge upgrade from a garage. Utilities are going to be nowhere near that. You're also inflating numbers. Like where does this 2 mont…

So I've been researching a move to DFW for the last two years.

Consider that when starting a new job you may go upwards of a month without a paycheck (to do pay cycle alignment). So beyond that the presumption is that you'll need to pay two months of living expenses if you move without a job - and its near to impossible to find a service job by interviewing remotely - and it will take 2-8 weeks to find one, and then another 2-4 weeks before you see a paycheck. (hence the two months of food, and extra month of rent)

800 a month is reasonable for a decent but not great area in DFW. Also, some places do want first/last/security deposit, plus various other "non-refundable deposits" - but if you're willing to put them in a bad part of town - I'll concede that 550-600 is possible.

The 100 dollars for a cell phone - was to pay for their existing services.

It's California, so yes they have a car (even odds) also, how do you fit 5 people in the cab of a uhaul? you don't. You can fit three legally, four is pushing it, and five is out of the question.

Also 40 bucks/night is unrealistic for hotels, they usually start at 50 and go up from there - some motel 6 properties do still have the 39.99 rate - but they're increasingly rare at this point - even when they do, thats for single occupancy (they charge more with more people) - in addition, no 40 dollar motel has breakfast.

As far as your quip that I've not done this? I have, I moved to Seattle with basically no money, and no stuff - which isn't practical when you're raising kids - I'd very much like to get out of the west coast as it is - but my job is here, and they pay me reasonably well for it. I also travel a ton for work - in the last 18 months I've been to: Erie (PA), Pittsburgh, Toronto, Ottawa, Dallas (twice), Phoenix, Palo Alto, Cheyenne (twice), Denver (twice), Newark, Chicago (Elgin), Winnipeg, Washington DC, Portland (OR), Ontario (CA), Vancouver (BC), and Newark. So I do have a good scope of cost of living elsewhere - and most importantly reasonable hotel costs. In addition two years ago I did a cross country road trip, from here to Nashville - some of my hotel data comes from that.

Re: Cafeteria workers at Facebook struggle to make ends meet

#524

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is the real estate market "the real story"? Seems like the real story is that facebook ought to pay its cafeteria workers more.

Don't be so susceptible. The literal story is about food workers who can't afford to raise a family in Palo Alto. The intended message seems to be that Facebook should pay food workers more than $20/hr. I think it's acceptable for people to ponder outside of that claim.

>>The literal story is about food workers who can't afford to raise a family in Palo Alto.

Even well paid programmers, managers and other well paid people can't raise a family in Palo Alto.

You can't pick the most expensive and costly neighborhood in all of US and use that as a benchmarks for what people should expect from the economy.

Re: Cafeteria workers at Facebook struggle to make ends meet

#525

Everybody here is focusing on real estate. (because young wealthy programmers and older poorer workers have a shared interest in cheap real estate) But I'm really interested in how HN feels about this section: “I felt more secure at my other job. You didn’t have people looking down at you,” Nicole said. Now she works at cafeterias with names like “Epic” and “Living the Dream”, and the distance between the two classes…

That's how capitalism and meritocracy work unfortunately.

Capitalism - yes.

"meritocracy" is a myth. Too many people forget that they started the 10-lap race with a 9-lap headstart.

I am personally very thankful for the headstart that my family gave me. Lots of others I grew up with didn't get the headstart.

...And it had nothing to do with me personally, it was an accident of lucky birth.

Re: Cafeteria workers at Facebook struggle to make ends meet

#526

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it's unjust, as these 'nice, exclusive areas' are the ones with the best access to employment and educational opportunities. And it creates an urban form that induces long, high-emission solo driver commutes and fewer residents in a part of the country that requires very little HVAC— both of which lead to a lot of climate change. And it maintains a segregated society, racially and otherwise, where the wealthy…

Until everyone has perfectly identical IQs, attractiveness, charisma, strength, agility and luck, some things will be perceived as economically unjust. In other words, it will always be this way. Life is a competition for resources and genetic legacy, there are always going to be winners and losers. >wealthy may ignore social problems Yes, that's one of the best parts of being wealthy. Being able to enjoy life withou…

No zoning doesn't mean no fire code. And why not give poor people a place to live they can afford?

Re: Cafeteria workers at Facebook struggle to make ends meet

#527

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"willing to work" This pretends there is actual choice for most folks, when the truth is most folks are just choosing between jobs that pay around the same. The alternative is to not have food, shelter, and such things. That is hardly a choice - of course folks will be willing to work for that amount. Theoretically one can go to college or work their way up, but all those take time. College takes money. I don't know…

Student loans?

Which are becoming less and less worth it everyday as other forces extract all the value out of them with higher rates? It's a problem along every facet of society currently, all of the value is being extracted to an increasing few

Re: Cafeteria workers at Facebook struggle to make ends meet

#528
post #174

> They earn too much to qualify for state healthcare, but not enough to afford the health insurance offered by their employer. They frequently struggle to find enough money for basics like food and clothes for their children. Victor recently borrowed money from his mother to hold a birthday party for one of his daughters, and from a friend to pay for a dentist appointment. They might want to look into not being marri…

It's pretty sad that the combination of the tax code, income based benefit eligibility, and a high local cost of living make something like "Divorce for the sake of the children" a real option. Christ, is this where we all are now? Just to work and eat, you have to get a divorce and try to finagle your way through the state systems? I don't even know if I know of a word for the feeling I get from this. Despair, resig…

Facebook, the one that's trying to track every single facet of data on every individual on the planet, with or without their permission? Facebook the place that outsources the jobs mentioned in the article out to contracting firms so they can pay the non hackers less? What makes you think that Facebook or any mega corp is a place that wants any of "freedom and justice and peace and order". They want money, that's it. If you work for them, you can have your own private desires but you are not helping them do anything but make money

Re: Cafeteria workers at Facebook struggle to make ends meet

#529

I grew up in India and both my parents worked for a Central government company. Their company has quarters (apartment complexes) which were heavily subsidized. The employee could own one individual apartment or pay subsidized monthly rent. The company (central govt. in this case) offer loans for their employees at a lower than market rate to own this apartment. I like that approach. Since both my parents were working…

Facebook actually is trying to [build their own housing]( https://sf.curbed.com/2016/7/27/12299438/facebook-housing-de... ) now. Ultimately though its a failure of Menlo Park that it hasn't allowed enough housing units to support the number of office units its allowed to be built.

i did not know that. I wish more and more companies did this.

Re: Cafeteria workers at Facebook struggle to make ends meet

#530
post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What area is that?

Kansas City, and it's nearly infinite suburbs, would be incredibly comfortable at 75k. Could easily afford a nice home in one of the bustling urban neighborhoods, or a 2,000+ sq ft. in the burbs, or something with a few acres out in the country but near an interstate for commuting.

I would love to move to a more affordable rural area, but as an Asian guy married to a white wife, I'm a little afraid of how we (and our kids) might be treated.

Back in the early 90s, my family temporary moved to a predominately white neighborhood in the more rural parts of Pennsylvania and got some death threats that very day. We only stayed a few months before we moved again, but that left some lasting memories for me.

It was a long time ago and I would hope in 2017 things have completely changed, but it still worries me. One of the best things I love about the Bay Area is the diversity and how much camaraderie there is between all cultures.

Of course I know the first generation immigrants still tend to stick to their own ethnic groups, but their kids definitely don't. And that's one thing that makes me very comfortable and happy.

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