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Wisconsin company to offer microchip implants to its employees

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Re: Wisconsin company to offer microchip implants to its employees

#51

Post by Someone »

nextlevelwizard wrote: post #26
lostboys67 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its still a medical procedure and has anyone done an analysis of the risks ok we do it to pets but fido isn't going to sue you if bad stuff happens.

Maybe this is different since I'm coming from non-US point of view so health care is quite different. To me it's obvious that employer's insurance covers implanting, removal, and any issues that it might cause.

The employer might no longer exist (IMO, the probability that a company that does these kinds of experiments goes bankrupt is far from negligible), deny responsibility ("you should have let us take it out when you left the company"), or not pay for all costs (say, you moved state; will they pay travel costs to their appointed expert? Pay for time lost?)

Re: Wisconsin company to offer microchip implants to its employees

#52

Post by Normal_gaussian »

Kluny wrote: post #16
Normal_gaussian wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Make the band from the right metals and it keeps itself hygienic

My new startup makes employee id bracelets out of sterling silver with embedded rfid chips encased in sapphire, for tech startups that can't figure out how to spend their VC money.

I'll take that as sarcasm, cheap copper should be fine

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antimicrobial_properties_of_...

Re: Wisconsin company to offer microchip implants to its employees

#53

Post by tzs »

Two things I'd want to know before even entertaining the idea:

1. Are these safe during an MRI?

From what I've been able to find some chips seem fine during an MRI (Kari of MythBusters had one implanted and had an MRI done with no problems on an episode), but the FDA lists MRI incompatibility as a potential health concern for chip implants.

At least one manufacturer that says their chips are safe for MRI do say that people undergoing an MRI with their chips need to be continually monitored visually and aurally and told to alert the operate if the feel anything unusual, and patients who are sedated or anesthetized or confused should not be given MRIs.

2. Will these show up during the security check at airports? I dislike commercial air travel to the point that I have no intention of ever taking it again, but if I do, or if these oppressive security theater shows get extended to other forms of transit that I'm still currently open to, I don't like the idea of something that might trigger more extensive screening.

Bonus concern: how standardized is this stuff? If implanted chips for payments, opening doors, etc., take off and all kinds of places support them, is one chip enough or am I going to need one to unlock my office, one for my home, one for my car, one to pay via my credit card account (or worse, a separate one corresponding to each credit card account), one for buses, one for each store's rewards program, and so on?

Re: Wisconsin company to offer microchip implants to its employees

#54

Post by flyinghamster »

rbanffy wrote: post #47

Funny they think GPS tracking is the problem with this. The problem is that it's a way to check your identity even if you'd prefer not to voluntarily provide it. I can scan you as you pass our flower pots without your knowledge and, even if, at first, I can't identify you, with time I will. And by then you won't be able to easily remove the implant.

Indeed. My own take on microchip implants: Not just no, but HELL NO.

Even though I make no pretense of being overly religious, things like this look, if not Orwellian, than downright Mark-Of-The-Beast-ish.

Re: Wisconsin company to offer microchip implants to its employees

#55

Post by Bartweiss »

tzs wrote: post #53

Two things I'd want to know before even entertaining the idea: 1. Are these safe during an MRI? From what I've been able to find some chips seem fine during an MRI (Kari of MythBusters had one implanted and had an MRI done with no problems on an episode), but the FDA lists MRI incompatibility as a potential health concern for chip implants. At least one manufacturer that says their chips are safe for MRI do say that…

> how standardized is this stuff?

Yeah, this is a good question. Something Visa-level reliable might make sense, conditional on your other questions. But getting the Discover implant that doesn't work most places? Or the Diner's Club implant that's the first big player but fades in popularity?

I don't really want to take sides in a format war using my own body.

Re: Wisconsin company to offer microchip implants to its employees

#56

Post by Bartweiss »

nmstoker wrote: post #48

The justifications for this are so utterly marginal. I'm sure some could benefit but it's vanishingly few people who will. A ring (as others suggest) gets you most of the benefits - and maybe rings have the downside of being forgotten, but I've left my work passcard a few times over the years and it's not the end of the world... Not so bad I'd prefer a minor surgical procedure! And the supposed advantage of not getti…

> And the supposed advantage of not getting it caught in things?

There are definitely people who take off their rings regularly, like electricians and climbers. But even then, I virtually never hear about them losing rings, and they can put them on any time they'd be shopping. I'm really missing the advantage here.

Re: Wisconsin company to offer microchip implants to its employees

#57

Post by hodgesrm »

rbanffy wrote: post #47

Funny they think GPS tracking is the problem with this. The problem is that it's a way to check your identity even if you'd prefer not to voluntarily provide it. I can scan you as you pass our flower pots without your knowledge and, even if, at first, I can't identify you, with time I will. And by then you won't be able to easily remove the implant.

Facial recognition is improving so rapidly that having an extra microchip does not seem to add much value for identifying people. It's simpler to get the same information from cameras, which are ubiquitous. On the GPS side there's all that location data streaming out of your cell phone, not to mention the semantic information about what you are looking at/doing on the Internet.

There's a lot to be concerned in the privacy realm but many of the threats are already implemented and getting more effective very quickly.

Re: Wisconsin company to offer microchip implants to its employees

#58

Post by snuxoll »

Bartweiss wrote: post #55
tzs wrote: post #53

Two things I'd want to know before even entertaining the idea: 1. Are these safe during an MRI? From what I've been able to find some chips seem fine during an MRI (Kari of MythBusters had one implanted and had an MRI done with no problems on an episode), but the FDA lists MRI incompatibility as a potential health concern for chip implants. At least one manufacturer that says their chips are safe for MRI do say that…

> how standardized is this stuff? Yeah, this is a good question. Something Visa-level reliable might make sense, conditional on your other questions. But getting the Discover implant that doesn't work most places? Or the Diner's Club implant that's the first big player but fades in popularity? I don't really want to take sides in a format war using my own body.

There's literally only one time I've tried to use a Discover card and not been able to, and it was a local DQ franchise (yet they still took amex?). My wife's daily driver is her Discover It card, and even traveling to small rural towns she's never been in a situation where she had to break out her shelved Visa cards.

Re: Wisconsin company to offer microchip implants to its employees

#59

Post by Cyberdelic »

I liked the part about it being encrypted and secure. Uh-huh. At least until one of these employees picks up something with an embedded RFID cloner... Even if the underlying data in encrypted and considered unusable by the 'bad guy', they can still use it in the encrypted form to impersonate the employee... sooooo....

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Implants are great for both the novelty and the convenience, but I don't like it being pitched as somehow being inherently more secure than a standard access card or whatever (beyond it being more difficult to have your hand stolen or misplaced).

Re: Wisconsin company to offer microchip implants to its employees

#60

Post by rbanffy »

hodgesrm wrote: post #57
rbanffy wrote: post #47

Funny they think GPS tracking is the problem with this. The problem is that it's a way to check your identity even if you'd prefer not to voluntarily provide it. I can scan you as you pass our flower pots without your knowledge and, even if, at first, I can't identify you, with time I will. And by then you won't be able to easily remove the implant.

Facial recognition is improving so rapidly that having an extra microchip does not seem to add much value for identifying people. It's simpler to get the same information from cameras, which are ubiquitous. On the GPS side there's all that location data streaming out of your cell phone, not to mention the semantic information about what you are looking at/doing on the Internet. There's a lot to be concerned in the pr…

Face recognition is not that great and can be defeated with some tricks (never tried IR paint, but I guess it'd be effective at night). You can also leave your phone in the car or at your house, or give it to someone else who'll be you to those sensors.

It's much harder to detach (and reattach) your hand.

Also, I never volunteered to be tagged by facial recognition (except for my passport) and these people are volunteering to be tagged.

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