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Cafeteria workers at Facebook struggle to make ends meet

theguardian.com

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Re: Cafeteria workers at Facebook struggle to make ends meet

#101

Post by akgerber »

eropple wrote: post #83
wbl wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should they given the gains to concentration? Other metro like Chicago and NYC do have tech offices.

Maybe to not effectively destroy cities and communities with CoL traps? Y'know. Basic "we are members of a society and should be working to make it better" stuff. (Shocking, I know, but there have been eras where even Big Businessmans thought about this.)

The 'cost of living trap' is due far more to a growing amount of wages (good!) chasing after an essentially-capped housing supply near those jobs. When well-paying manufacturing jobs boomed in Detroit during the 1910s auto boom, its population doubled in a decade, and increased by 50% in the following decade— but its housing stock grew to match! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detroit#Demographics

On the other hand, the population of Menlo Park has increased around 10% in the midst of a world-historical boom: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menlo_Park,_California And neighboring Atherton is still well below its peak population: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atherton,_California This is because they've zoned out pretty much all new apartment, or even sometimes 2-story house, construction.

So instead more and more of those rising wages chase after the same houses.

Re: Cafeteria workers at Facebook struggle to make ends meet

#102

Post by selectodude »

ProAm wrote: post #52
refurb wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Contributing to the issue? You mean by creating a ton of high paying jobs? Are you saying they should stop doing that?

A ton? Yes high paying jobs that clearly have had an effect on the local economy as shown by this article. Like I said it's a macro economic issue that can't be fixed with a comment on a discussion board.

I’m literally any other situation, supply and demand would have taken care of this a decade ago. PA doesn’t allow new construction and then blames a third party for housing costs. It’s asinine.

Re: Cafeteria workers at Facebook struggle to make ends meet

#103

Post by frgtpsswrdlame »

Dude2018 wrote: post #94
frgtpsswrdlame wrote: post #53

Everybody here is focusing on real estate. (because young wealthy programmers and older poorer workers have a shared interest in cheap real estate) But I'm really interested in how HN feels about this section: “I felt more secure at my other job. You didn’t have people looking down at you,” Nicole said. Now she works at cafeterias with names like “Epic” and “Living the Dream”, and the distance between the two classes…

That's how capitalism and meritocracy work unfortunately.

Do you believe we live in a meritocracy?

EDIT: I guess this is a bad question since it's really a matter of degrees. Perhaps a better question is: How meritocratic do you feel that our society is?

Re: Cafeteria workers at Facebook struggle to make ends meet

#104

Post by goatforce5 »

Bartweiss wrote: post #84
frgtpsswrdlame wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think people are pondering outside of that claim because young programmers in Palo Alto also want cheap real estate so there's a shared interest. But things this article brings up that are more uncomfortable for the members of this board to think about like paying service workers more or pondering this: “They look at us like we’re lower, like we don’t matter,” said Nicole of the Facebook employees. “We don’t live t…

> At the end of every shift, Nicole watches large amounts of leftover food go into the compost – food that she’s not allowed to take home. On that one in particular - is there a law against that? I know rules on food service workers taking things home vary quite a bit.

I knew someone who worked at a supermarket many years ago when they were in college. Apparently staff were allowed to take home products that were damaged (crumpled/torn packaging, etc.), rather than just throwing them in the trash.

Apparently chocolate cookies had an unfortunate and inexplicable habit of being crushed under other products and being deemed unfit for sale.

Once the policy changed and staff had to throw damaged products in the garbage compactor, apparently a lot less chocolate cookies were getting damaged.

Re: Cafeteria workers at Facebook struggle to make ends meet

#105

Post by akgerber »

wbl wrote: post #68
VeejayRampay wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is precisely why the USA need to get on the HST gravy train. Fast, reliable trains provide a way for people who cannot afford living in the more densely populated area (or don't want to) a way to live in a huge house with a yard and a pool 100 miles from said populated area. You then have an hour long commute every day (door to door), which is quite long, sure, but bearable.

The valley is not densely populated. It has acres of luxury zoned single family housing.

Neighboring Atherton has a land use goal of 'preserv[ing] the Town's character as a scenic, rural, thickly wooded residential area with abundant open space.'

Re: Cafeteria workers at Facebook struggle to make ends meet

#106

Post by eropple »

selectodude wrote: post #96
eropple wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe to not effectively destroy cities and communities with CoL traps? Y'know. Basic "we are members of a society and should be working to make it better" stuff. (Shocking, I know, but there have been eras where even Big Businessmans thought about this.)

Those cities should stop destroying themselves and allow new construction.

Ah, yes. It's the cities' fault. Only the cities'. Not the people piling on top while knowing it's both untenable and unfair to their fellow citizens to piss in the public pool as they are--they're blameless.

You know we can walk and chew gum at the same time, right?

Re: Cafeteria workers at Facebook struggle to make ends meet

#107

Post by Johnny555 »

frgtpsswrdlame wrote: post #92
ocschwar wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Re-read the comment. There's a lot of truth to it: raise their wages, and in a heartbeat, those workers will see their rents rise.

>There's a lot of truth to it: raise their wages, and in a heartbeat, those workers will see their rents rise. This offers a brilliant solution, just in the other direction. Let's lower the wages of programmers in the area. As their wages decrease the price of real estate will go down!

That's true, housing prices will go down as techies move to other areas with better wages like Seattle, Austin, Boston, etc.

But then the low paid techie cafeteria workers will be out of a job. So I'm not sure that's a net win.

Re: Cafeteria workers at Facebook struggle to make ends meet

#108

Post by FussyZeus »

frgtpsswrdlame wrote: post #64
henraldp wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't be so susceptible. The literal story is about food workers who can't afford to raise a family in Palo Alto. The intended message seems to be that Facebook should pay food workers more than $20/hr. I think it's acceptable for people to ponder outside of that claim.

I think people are pondering outside of that claim because young programmers in Palo Alto also want cheap real estate so there's a shared interest. But things this article brings up that are more uncomfortable for the members of this board to think about like paying service workers more or pondering this: “They look at us like we’re lower, like we don’t matter,” said Nicole of the Facebook employees. “We don’t live t…

At some point we have to recognize that service workers must be paid a living wage, or be automated. We cannot, morally or economically, have an entire class of worker that we utterly depend on that lives permanently below the poverty line and we just step on them because "they didn't work hard in school" or whichever narrative you prefer to go with for why people who don't have a degree do work that is essential to our civilization.

The reality is that the fair market isn't perfect, and even jobs that are low on the totem pole but essential must be compensated in such a way where people don't need to work 60 hour weeks to barely afford a shithole home and car.

Re: Cafeteria workers at Facebook struggle to make ends meet

#109

Post by eropple »

akgerber wrote: post #101
eropple wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe to not effectively destroy cities and communities with CoL traps? Y'know. Basic "we are members of a society and should be working to make it better" stuff. (Shocking, I know, but there have been eras where even Big Businessmans thought about this.)

The 'cost of living trap' is due far more to a growing amount of wages (good!) chasing after an essentially-capped housing supply near those jobs. When well-paying manufacturing jobs boomed in Detroit during the 1910s auto boom, its population doubled in a decade, and increased by 50% in the following decade— but its housing stock grew to match! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detroit#Demographics On the other hand, th…

I am aware of everything you are citing. City policy should change. At the same time, the corporate interests that are triggering this should have the social conscience to seek alternate solutions rather than straining the public good to its breaking point. Corporations exist to serve society, not the other way around, and bad actors should be treated as such.

Re: Cafeteria workers at Facebook struggle to make ends meet

#110

Post by qudat »

frgtpsswrdlame wrote: post #60
tmh79 wrote: post #46

The real story here is how the political conditions of the SFBA have prevented growth of the housing supply. The sad reality is that housing here is now a zero sum game, and any broad based increase in wages would pretty quickly be captured by landlords. The real solution to this issue is not higher wages, but targeted efforts to decrease the cost of living through building a ton of of "missing middle" housing like 4…

Why is the real estate market "the real story"? Seems like the real story is that facebook ought to pay its cafeteria workers more.

Why should they be paid more? If someone is willing to work for that wage then that is what the wage will be set at.
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