Cafeteria workers at Facebook struggle to make ends meet • Hacker News Board

Re: Cafeteria workers at Facebook struggle to make ends meet

#61

Post by henraldp » Mon, Jul 24, 2017, 3:36 PM UTC

frgtpsswrdlame wrote: post #60

tmh79 wrote: post #46

The real story here is how the political conditions of the SFBA have prevented growth of the housing supply. The sad reality is that housing here is now a zero sum game, and any broad based increase in wages would pretty quickly be captured by landlords. The real solution to this issue is not higher wages, but targeted efforts to decrease the cost of living through building a ton of of "missing middle" housing like 4…

Why is the real estate market "the real story"? Seems like the real story is that facebook ought to pay its cafeteria workers more.

Don't be so susceptible.

The literal story is about food workers who can't afford to raise a family in Palo Alto. The intended message seems to be that Facebook should pay food workers more than $20/hr.

I think it's acceptable for people to ponder outside of that claim.

Re: Cafeteria workers at Facebook struggle to make ends meet

#62

Post by bhups » Mon, Jul 24, 2017, 3:36 PM UTC

frgtpsswrdlame wrote: post #60

tmh79 wrote: post #46

The real story here is how the political conditions of the SFBA have prevented growth of the housing supply. The sad reality is that housing here is now a zero sum game, and any broad based increase in wages would pretty quickly be captured by landlords. The real solution to this issue is not higher wages, but targeted efforts to decrease the cost of living through building a ton of of "missing middle" housing like 4…

Why is the real estate market "the real story"? Seems like the real story is that facebook ought to pay its cafeteria workers more.

If they were to do that, what do you think would happen to the price of the finite/scarce housing supply?

Re: Cafeteria workers at Facebook struggle to make ends meet

#63

Post by tyingq » Mon, Jul 24, 2017, 3:37 PM UTC

frgtpsswrdlame wrote: post #60

tmh79 wrote: post #46

The real story here is how the political conditions of the SFBA have prevented growth of the housing supply. The sad reality is that housing here is now a zero sum game, and any broad based increase in wages would pretty quickly be captured by landlords. The real solution to this issue is not higher wages, but targeted efforts to decrease the cost of living through building a ton of of "missing middle" housing like 4…

Why is the real estate market "the real story"? Seems like the real story is that facebook ought to pay its cafeteria workers more.

The workers are employed by Flagship Facility Services. I assume it's fairly common to contract out the operation of your cafeteria, versus managing that in-house. Their wages are mentioned in the article...$19.85/hr and $17.85/hr. It that unusually low for someone working at, say, a table-service chain restaurant in the same area?

Edit: Comparison to tipped workers seems apples/oranges. More curious if ~$18/hr is unusually low for a worker in a similar, non-tipped, job in the same area. Like maybe a BBQ restaurant where the service is similar to a cafeteria.

Re: Cafeteria workers at Facebook struggle to make ends meet

#64

Post by frgtpsswrdlame » Mon, Jul 24, 2017, 3:39 PM UTC

henraldp wrote: post #61

frgtpsswrdlame wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is the real estate market "the real story"? Seems like the real story is that facebook ought to pay its cafeteria workers more.

Don't be so susceptible. The literal story is about food workers who can't afford to raise a family in Palo Alto. The intended message seems to be that Facebook should pay food workers more than $20/hr. I think it's acceptable for people to ponder outside of that claim.

I think people are pondering outside of that claim because young programmers in Palo Alto also want cheap real estate so there's a shared interest. But things this article brings up that are more uncomfortable for the members of this board to think about like paying service workers more or pondering this:

“They look at us like we’re lower, like we don’t matter,” said Nicole of the Facebook employees. “We don’t live the dream. The techies are living the dream. It’s for them.”

The smaller indignities are numerous. At the end of every shift, Nicole watches large amounts of leftover food go into the compost – food that she’s not allowed to take home. Cafeteria workers only enter Facebook’s medical clinics if they’ve been selected for a mandatory drug test. Facebook recently held a “Bring your kids to work” day, but cafeteria workers’ children were not allowed.

are going to go untalked about. And what's the problem with saying that Facebook should pay it's workers more than $20/hr? If it's not enough to live on, that's kind of all there is to it isn't there?

Re: Cafeteria workers at Facebook struggle to make ends meet

#65

Post by wbl » Mon, Jul 24, 2017, 3:40 PM UTC

ringwalt wrote: post #51

s3r3nity wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This - the headline of the article is a bit click-bait-y, but you nail the crux of the issue. When I worked there years back, I recall chatting with a few cafeteria workers and learning that they were paid more than the average contract worker; the issue isn't that they're being paid poorly, but rather that the Valley is _so expensive_ to live in. It should be more of a commentary on the state of California and the c…

Well you can't really consider the Bay Area housing bubble and cost of living spike without taking the tech boom into account. I think it's both the fault of NIMBYism/failure to build sufficient housing in the South Bay, and the fault of large companies, VCs, and startups for doubling down on the South Bay instead of distributing new jobs more evenly throughout the rest of the country.

Why should they given the gains to concentration? Other metro like Chicago and NYC do have tech offices.

Re: Cafeteria workers at Facebook struggle to make ends meet

#66

Post by bluedino » Mon, Jul 24, 2017, 3:40 PM UTC

dpark wrote: post #11

austenallred wrote: post #2

“Back in the day, [the wage] would have been a great number,” said Victor, “but because of Facebook moving in, everything is so expensive. I have to get payday loans sometimes. We barely make it.” They make a combined (rounded) $75,000/year. The real tragedy is that you can't afford to make it in the Bay Area on $75k/yr. I don't think that's something you can blame solely on Facebook.

Where is their $75k/year going? I totally get that the bay is ridiculously expensive, but they're living in his parents' garage. Are his parents charging him that much rent? I'd think someone living in their parents' garage and earning $75k would be doing pretty well in terms of money. (Setting aside the fact that living with your family in a 2-car garage would definitely suck.)

"Living in a garage" sounds a lot worse than "staying with your parents rent free"

Re: Cafeteria workers at Facebook struggle to make ends meet

#67

Post by little_cat » Mon, Jul 24, 2017, 3:40 PM UTC

austenallred wrote: post #55

little_cat wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Removed, changed my mind.

To be fair, though, is your health insurance covered by your employer?

This is fair point, medical expenses are largest risk in their situation, but I found that article is not about this.

Re: Cafeteria workers at Facebook struggle to make ends meet

#68

Post by wbl » Mon, Jul 24, 2017, 3:41 PM UTC

VeejayRampay wrote: post #59

austenallred wrote: post #2

“Back in the day, [the wage] would have been a great number,” said Victor, “but because of Facebook moving in, everything is so expensive. I have to get payday loans sometimes. We barely make it.” They make a combined (rounded) $75,000/year. The real tragedy is that you can't afford to make it in the Bay Area on $75k/yr. I don't think that's something you can blame solely on Facebook.

This is precisely why the USA need to get on the HST gravy train. Fast, reliable trains provide a way for people who cannot afford living in the more densely populated area (or don't want to) a way to live in a huge house with a yard and a pool 100 miles from said populated area. You then have an hour long commute every day (door to door), which is quite long, sure, but bearable.

The valley is not densely populated. It has acres of luxury zoned single family housing.

Re: Cafeteria workers at Facebook struggle to make ends meet

#69

Post by nxsynonym » Mon, Jul 24, 2017, 3:41 PM UTC

mc32 wrote: post #36

nxsynonym wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's education inflation. a college degree is the new highschool diploma. Even with a 4 year degree in a "real" field of study (business/stem/finance/whatever) it's becoming more and more difficult to land entry level jobs. If you pay 30/60/90k for said degree, you are going to feel entitled (rightfully or not) to working in a position that's not for the "uneducated". These positions still need to be filled though, b…

Perhaps but consider even in developing economies these kinds of jobs aren't the ones which allow you to raise a middle class family, never mind a doing so in a developed economy.

Just to be clear - I'm not advocating for minimum wage jobs to put a family of 4 (or 5) in the middle class bracket.

What I'm advocating for is that (2!) minimum wage jobs should afford rent, food, and medical/dental expenses. There is absolutely no excuse why $75k combined income should afford a 2 or 3 br apartment, food, and to keep the kids healthy.

The only options are to a) either lower costs to make things affordable, b) raise the lower end of the pay scale, or c) sacrifice the luxuries/services that come with low paying jobs (fast food, manual labor services, etc).

a) will never happen, prices will only rise until all the tech companies go bust or move b) to raise the lower end of the pay scale the higher end would have to sacrifice salaries c) most likely to happen - or be replaced with automation -driving these families and jobs out of the area completely.

I'm interested to see how SV will develop over the next 15-20 years. It will probably end up being over paid tech-workers and robots automating everything else.

Re: Cafeteria workers at Facebook struggle to make ends meet

#70

Post by tormeh » Mon, Jul 24, 2017, 3:42 PM UTC

davidiach wrote: post #32

austenallred wrote: post #2

“Back in the day, [the wage] would have been a great number,” said Victor, “but because of Facebook moving in, everything is so expensive. I have to get payday loans sometimes. We barely make it.” They make a combined (rounded) $75,000/year. The real tragedy is that you can't afford to make it in the Bay Area on $75k/yr. I don't think that's something you can blame solely on Facebook.

The only reason $75k/yr is considered low wage has to do with the housing prices in that area. Everyone knows the solution to that problem is to increase the supply of housing, yet little is being done. Maybe soon enough, $100k/yr will be the new $75k$. What then?

The long-time residents have enacted legislation that insulates them from price increases, so house prices are irrelevant to them. Rent controls, property tax freeze, etc. aren't failed policies, but wildly successful ones because they allow long-time residents to pretend that SF is still a small town. That it puts a hard squeeze on people moving in to SF is probably just frosting on the cake.