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Cafeteria workers at Facebook struggle to make ends meet

theguardian.com

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Re: Cafeteria workers at Facebook struggle to make ends meet

#91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is the real estate market "the real story"? Seems like the real story is that facebook ought to pay its cafeteria workers more.

Re-read the comment. There's a lot of truth to it: raise their wages, and in a heartbeat, those workers will see their rents rise.

...and more development projects will make financial sense, so there will be more investment in housing. Rising rents are a short term problem, but they do provide long-term solutions.

Of course, communities in the Bay Area (and elsewhere) can make it less expensive to build affordable, denser housing. That should have similar long term benefits.

Re: Cafeteria workers at Facebook struggle to make ends meet

#92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is the real estate market "the real story"? Seems like the real story is that facebook ought to pay its cafeteria workers more.

Re-read the comment. There's a lot of truth to it: raise their wages, and in a heartbeat, those workers will see their rents rise.

>There's a lot of truth to it: raise their wages, and in a heartbeat, those workers will see their rents rise.

This offers a brilliant solution, just in the other direction. Let's lower the wages of programmers in the area. As their wages decrease the price of real estate will go down!

Re: Cafeteria workers at Facebook struggle to make ends meet

#94

Everybody here is focusing on real estate. (because young wealthy programmers and older poorer workers have a shared interest in cheap real estate) But I'm really interested in how HN feels about this section: “I felt more secure at my other job. You didn’t have people looking down at you,” Nicole said. Now she works at cafeterias with names like “Epic” and “Living the Dream”, and the distance between the two classes…

That's how capitalism and meritocracy work unfortunately.

Re: Cafeteria workers at Facebook struggle to make ends meet

#95
post #46

The real story here is how the political conditions of the SFBA have prevented growth of the housing supply. The sad reality is that housing here is now a zero sum game, and any broad based increase in wages would pretty quickly be captured by landlords. The real solution to this issue is not higher wages, but targeted efforts to decrease the cost of living through building a ton of of "missing middle" housing like 4…

Why is the real estate market "the real story"? Seems like the real story is that facebook ought to pay its cafeteria workers more.

Rents are rising at 5-10% a year in the south bay, and if you don't live in mountain view you don't have renters protections. There is no end in sight for cost of living stabilization for the bottom end of the market without large supply growth and/or rent control policies being enacted. Facebook could solve the problem this year by issuing a broad based 10% raise for all of their contract workers, but they would need to do the same thing next year, and the year after that etc etc etc. At the end of the day, all of this money takes a winding route through the valley and ends up in the pockets of people who own land, which is the most scare resource out here.

Due to the land use policies of the SFBA (huge swaths of Single family zoning), land itself has become a proxy for access to opportunity, and the land value is derived from both its scarcity and its proximity to high paying jobs. Single family zoning in essence creates a minimum amount of land you need to occupy through rents or investment to have access to the opportunity in the area. While we cannot create more land, we can minimize the amount of land one must occupy to have access to opportunity through up-zoning single family districts to multi family districts (more families occupying the same plot of land in multi family housing compared to single family housing).

If we want more people to have more access, then we need to reduce the amount of land they must occupy for that access, through sensible land use reforms. As far as I know, there is no other solution (other than full communism) that does not involve the equivalent of vast subsidies to existing land owners

Re: Cafeteria workers at Facebook struggle to make ends meet

#96
post #83
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should they given the gains to concentration? Other metro like Chicago and NYC do have tech offices.

Maybe to not effectively destroy cities and communities with CoL traps? Y'know. Basic "we are members of a society and should be working to make it better" stuff. (Shocking, I know, but there have been eras where even Big Businessmans thought about this.)

Those cities should stop destroying themselves and allow new construction.

Re: Cafeteria workers at Facebook struggle to make ends meet

#97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think people are pondering outside of that claim because young programmers in Palo Alto also want cheap real estate so there's a shared interest. But things this article brings up that are more uncomfortable for the members of this board to think about like paying service workers more or pondering this: “They look at us like we’re lower, like we don’t matter,” said Nicole of the Facebook employees. “We don’t live t…

> At the end of every shift, Nicole watches large amounts of leftover food go into the compost – food that she’s not allowed to take home. On that one in particular - is there a law against that? I know rules on food service workers taking things home vary quite a bit.

I've heard that restaurants will spoil food at the end of the day rather than give it to employees to prevent employees from deliberately over-making or mis-making food so they can take it home.

Re: Cafeteria workers at Facebook struggle to make ends meet

#98

Everybody here is focusing on real estate. (because young wealthy programmers and older poorer workers have a shared interest in cheap real estate) But I'm really interested in how HN feels about this section: “I felt more secure at my other job. You didn’t have people looking down at you,” Nicole said. Now she works at cafeterias with names like “Epic” and “Living the Dream”, and the distance between the two classes…

That's how capitalism and meritocracy work unfortunately.

Sure - you deserve more money by virtue of merit if you work for a company that sells people's data to advertisers. I think Adam Smith and Milton Friedman were pretty clear about that.

Re: Cafeteria workers at Facebook struggle to make ends meet

#99
post #25

MacDonald's is also a multibillion dollar corp., nobody in their right mind thinks they can raise a family working at MacD's without additional income or subsidy. It's a job for teenagers to get experience and for blue collar retirees to make some money to and to their SS checks. People should stop thinking teenager jobs sustain families. It doesn't have the value add. If you want to make a living open up a stand and…

I don't understand, what point are you making? Your solution is pull yourself up by your bootstraps?

Basic message is don't expect much from an entry level job. You can't make a living from them even in developing countries, much less in developed countries.

Re: Cafeteria workers at Facebook struggle to make ends meet

#100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They earn too much to qualify for state health care, but not enough to afford the health insurance offered by their employer. They frequently struggle to find enough money for basics like food and clothes for their children. Victor recently borrowed money from his mother to hold a birthday party for one of his daughters, and from a friend to pay for a dentist appointment. This one might be a little unpopular but it…

> You are delusional or you have serious maths problems: if you can afford to give 100 to 10 people, you automatically afford to give 100 to 100,000 people? What logic is that? Ah, yes this is what the economists say. They are the delusional ones. Means testing breeds resentment and separates people. No, Scandinavians you don't get a say in this until you have as much "diversity" as we do in the United States. Here i…

A more middle ground solution would be to keep means testing but turn hard cut-offs into smoother ramp-downs. Making a few grand more shouldn't lose you benefits worth much more.
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