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Judge Rules Milwaukee Flouted U.S. Constitution in Response to Pokemon Go Craze

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Re: Judge Rules Milwaukee Flouted U.S. Constitution in Response to Pokemon Go Craze

#51

Post by wfunction »

PeterisP wrote: post #49
wfunction wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> City officials were aghast at large numbers of individuals playing Pokemon Go who visited parks, littered, trampled grass and flowers, and stayed past park hours. This seems like a legitimate issue though. How do you propose it be solved?

Large numbers of people visiting part sounds like a success - the only purpose why the park exists in the first place is so that the residents can go there and visit, so if they're doing it more than before then the park is achieving it's goal and it's great! It would be reasonable to expect that the job of these city officials should be to (a) encourage the people to visit parks even more; and (b) maintain the parks…

I agree with you entirely about the success but I don't think that implies a lack of a failure. Yes, the entire point of a park is for people to visit, and I love that people are doing that, but "visiting" a public place is not the same as trashing it. Especially given that there are rare flora there -- the point is for people to be able to enjoy them, not destroy them. How do you respond to that? Do you just think "who cares about rare plants, just plant grass or everyday flowers or something", or do you think there's value to having something less commonplace? Obviously these all need care, and fining people doesn't really fix the problem of letting the plants grow, since when the crowd is large there's always going to be someone messing something up, even if it's a small percentage of the people.

Re: Judge Rules Milwaukee Flouted U.S. Constitution in Response to Pokemon Go Craze

#52

Post by [deleted] »

zamalek wrote: post #41
kafkaesq wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

then when they get used, they cry out legally to stop the use. The parks weren't just being "used", people were littering, staying after hours, trampling on flowerbeds and stuff. Or did you miss that part of the article? So many normally sedentary people were getting up and going out and doing shit and getting exercise .. and people still went out of their way to be dicks about it... I don't get it. Say what you want…

> The parks weren't just being "used", people were littering, staying after hours, trampling on flowerbeds and stuff. Or did you miss that part of the article? These are problems that any park that has high traffic has to deal with. The judge offered reasonable solutions that didn't involve dissuading people from using the park. > But my no means was it in response to "normally sedentary people getting exercise." Fro…

[deleted]

Re: Judge Rules Milwaukee Flouted U.S. Constitution in Response to Pokemon Go Craze

#53

Post by kafkaesq »

zamalek wrote: post #41
kafkaesq wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

then when they get used, they cry out legally to stop the use. The parks weren't just being "used", people were littering, staying after hours, trampling on flowerbeds and stuff. Or did you miss that part of the article? So many normally sedentary people were getting up and going out and doing shit and getting exercise .. and people still went out of their way to be dicks about it... I don't get it. Say what you want…

> The parks weren't just being "used", people were littering, staying after hours, trampling on flowerbeds and stuff. Or did you miss that part of the article? These are problems that any park that has high traffic has to deal with. The judge offered reasonable solutions that didn't involve dissuading people from using the park. > But my no means was it in response to "normally sedentary people getting exercise." Fro…

These are problems that any park that has high traffic has to deal with.

No, they're not problems of "high traffic". That would be things like too many people on the lawn above intended capacity, and what not.

The point is that by any common sense definition, the kinds of activities noted by the authorities constitute "abuse", not "use" (as there is no intended allowance of things like trampling flower beds, etc, at any level of capacity). And hence, in any place where you have actual working municipal governance, you'll find that they're dealt with appropriately.

If you don't see the importance of this distinction -- sorry, but you're very confused.

Re: Judge Rules Milwaukee Flouted U.S. Constitution in Response to Pokemon Go Craze

#54

Post by jauer »

dragonwriter wrote: post #14
wfunction wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> City officials were aghast at large numbers of individuals playing Pokemon Go who visited parks, littered, trampled grass and flowers, and stayed past park hours. This seems like a legitimate issue though. How do you propose it be solved?

By enforcing rules against littering, using parks after hours, etc.

selectively enforcing laws against Pokemon players... E.g. enforcing parking hours including threatening to immediately tow cars except they'd ignore cars in the same lot that looked like they would belong to patrons of the restaurant frequented by the area elites.

Re: Judge Rules Milwaukee Flouted U.S. Constitution in Response to Pokemon Go Craze

#55

Post by dragonwriter »

syshum wrote: post #37
minikites wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The right does their best to cut government revenue via lower taxes, so how do you propose maintaining infrastructure with less income?

Make people that use the resources pay for them. the national parks are almost fully funded by the people that visit them. I do not use any of the Local Parks, I do not pay Pokemon Go, I do not have a use for either People that use the parks should pay for them, then if there is an increase in activity from something like Pokemon Go that means Revenue also increases to pay for the increased costs to maintain the asse…

> the national parks are almost fully funded by the people that visit them.

Even if that were true, National parks are big, which means the additional space taken up by toll collection infrastructure at parking areas (and the staff to man them) aren't a big deal, and they present lots of needs for people to stop and buy things which creates concession opportunities.

This is significantly less true of most (but not all) local parks.

But, anyway, even National Parks funding comes mostly from appropriated funds; fees (both directly from visitors and commercial services) are on the order of a couple hundred million of the single-digit billion dollar annual parks spendibf. And even that amount actually spent doesn't meet upkeep needs; the National Parks have deferred maintenance costs on the order of four times the annual budget.

Re: Judge Rules Milwaukee Flouted U.S. Constitution in Response to Pokemon Go Craze

#56

Post by wfunction »

syshum wrote: post #37
minikites wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The right does their best to cut government revenue via lower taxes, so how do you propose maintaining infrastructure with less income?

Make people that use the resources pay for them. the national parks are almost fully funded by the people that visit them. I do not use any of the Local Parks, I do not pay Pokemon Go, I do not have a use for either People that use the parks should pay for them, then if there is an increase in activity from something like Pokemon Go that means Revenue also increases to pay for the increased costs to maintain the asse…

> the national parks are almost fully funded by the people that visit them.

Source on this? I feel like if this was already the case then the issue of cutting national park funding wouldn't be such a big deal, and yet it is.

Re: Judge Rules Milwaukee Flouted U.S. Constitution in Response to Pokemon Go Craze

#57

Post by brewdad »

DanBC wrote: post #7
jmcdiesel wrote: post #3

Funny how for the longest time now, cities and counties take more and more money from public parks citing their underuse... then when they get used, they cry out legally to stop the use. Part of the costs of a park is cleaning up after people, its already in the budget. So is the landscaping. So is the coverage for wear and tear in general. Its also funny to see the difference. National Park Service embraces Pokemon…

> And the fact that so many normally sedentary people were getting up and going out and doing shit and getting exercise A minor nit, but Pokemon go did not increase activity levels for most players. http://www.nhs.uk/news/2016/12December/Pages/Pok%C3%A9mon-no... http://www.bmj.com/content/355/bmj.i6270

In my town it increased traffic (and road accidents). Players would drive up to the nearest Pokestop, collect their loot, and drive to the next one. I saw more than a few drivers make sudden turns or stops when an interesting spawn would occur. I don't really miss the craze.

Re: Judge Rules Milwaukee Flouted U.S. Constitution in Response to Pokemon Go Craze

#58

Post by brewdad »

jmcdiesel wrote: post #34
freebirdtoss wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If parks did not have hours enforced, they would become permanent homeless tent encampments.

Thats a bad argument... There are plenty of places that rules in place to prevent "homeless tent encampments" from being a thing. The same laws that prevent you from camping in city parks. Thats a bad example...

Obviously you haven't been to Portland lately. Any plot of land that doesn't have an overnight closure turns into a homeless camp.

Re: Judge Rules Milwaukee Flouted U.S. Constitution in Response to Pokemon Go Craze

#59

Post by crooked-v »

QAPereo wrote: post #5
jmcdiesel wrote: post #3

Funny how for the longest time now, cities and counties take more and more money from public parks citing their underuse... then when they get used, they cry out legally to stop the use. Part of the costs of a park is cleaning up after people, its already in the budget. So is the landscaping. So is the coverage for wear and tear in general. Its also funny to see the difference. National Park Service embraces Pokemon…

I suspect that down the line, some group of clever people will design something like Pokemon GO, but with some real meat on its bones and a long, monetized lifetime. At that point, you have to wonder if there will be a measurable hit on childhood obesity. I suspect there might be, albeit relatively small, still a measurable reduction.

If VR gets broadly popular it might also have some effect in this direction, since the most popular games so far (Echo Arena, Job Simulator, Climbey, etc) all require a fair bit of arm and body movement. It's not the most intense exercise, but it's way better than nothing, especially since the engagement of it means looking forward to it rather than dreading it as unpleasant exercise.

Re: Judge Rules Milwaukee Flouted U.S. Constitution in Response to Pokemon Go Craze

#60

Post by rocky1138 »

function_seven wrote: post #32
wfunction wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does that answer the question? I'm asking how to solve problem, the response is who needs to receive the blame? Edit: See edit above. The question isn't whom to blame, the question is how to resolve the issue. Blaming people doesn't generally resolve an issue, but enforcing it or putting in place mechanisms for preventing it or some other tangible action might.

Enforce existing laws on the people who are to blame. Fine them for littering. As far as flower-trampling, just shrug and wait for the fad to pass. It's not a big deal.

A city may cite a citizen for mischief or perhaps vandalism for flower-trampling.
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