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A hacker stole $31M of Ether – how it happened, and what it means for Ethereum

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Re: A hacker stole $31M of Ether – how it happened, and what it means for Ethereum

#381

Post by erikpukinskis »

jacquesm wrote: post #190
will_brown wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Smart contracts are not laws of nature, they are contracts. I totally agree you could come up with a few examples where enforceability would be a practical impossibility, but that's also the case with standard contracts. Just like the Arizona law I cited restricting use of smart contracts for "fire arm tracking", the law could restrict smart contracts in all sorts of ways to protect the public. Examples: -drafters of…

> Smart contracts are not laws of nature, they are contracts. No, they are software. And the participants to such a contract have agreed that the execution of that software is the entirety of their transaction. If one of the parties changes their mind after the fact they will have to convince a judge first that even though they initially agreed that the execution of the contract was the entirety of the agreement that…

You two are speaking across each other.

You're saying no amount of evidence could show someone intended to abide in a way other than how the smart contract says they must abide, because their intention is part and parcel of what the smart contract says. True.

Your partner in this conversation is saying: You might have agreed to something illegal. It's not that the smart contract drifted from the contract's intention, it's that you weren't allowed to agree to that contract in the first place. And they're right: in such a case, the courts won't give an F what conclusions the smart contract comes to. Also true.

Re: A hacker stole $31M of Ether – how it happened, and what it means for Ethereum

#382

Post by s73ver »

justadeveloper2 wrote: post #310
loceng wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we create a UBI then people will have the time to be better educated, to be healthier, to raise healthier, happier, and more productive families. We're almost there, automation will strongly facilitate this. Because a new technology seems exciting - and gains adoption because early adoption means potential for an individual to turn $1000s of into $1,000,000s with very little individual effort of working towards ma…

If we get a UBI, I'm quitting my developer job and just going to coast the rest of my life. I don't care how many corners I have to cut, lol. Gonna milk that cow as hard as I can. My dad used to ask to be laid off jobs (blue collar) so he could collect unemployment for a few months. He did that off and on for years.

You might. I wouldn't. I'd be willing to wager that most people here wouldn't. They might take more vacations, but they'd probably also be starting more companies.

Re: A hacker stole $31M of Ether – how it happened, and what it means for Ethereum

#383

Post by CoryG89 »

ihattendorf wrote: post #328
magnetic wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard this argument before and was wondering how it can be considered ok: 1) hacker steals massive amount of money from a crypto wallet 2) hacker cashes out and gets real money 3) network realizes the hack and "rewrites history" as if "the contract never went wrong" How is this a valid outcome? Somebody in here is out a large amount of real money.

The whole reason the DAO hard fork worked was because the funds were locked until a certain date. The hackers couldn't access them until after that date, so the hard fork before that date resulted in no hacked ETH being traded for USD (or anything else).

Actually, if I understand correctly, the hard fork could still have been done even if the funds weren't locked up. It's just that then it might not have been the hacker getting the short end of the stick, but rather whoever was unlucky enough to take their ETH in exchange for some other currency.

The hard fork may have been considered unfair by more people if the funds had not been locked, but the point still stands that if you could get enough of the network to agree with you, you can fork and start over at any block in the past you want.

Re: A hacker stole $31M of Ether – how it happened, and what it means for Ethereum

#384

Post by wdewind »

erikpukinskis wrote: post #374
wdewind wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saying that bitcoin allows users to act as their own banks is like saying a mattress with your cash under it is your own bank. It's not meaningful in anyway. Debt is the meaningful differentiator.

No, ability to issue a controlled lot of physical currency is the meaningful differentiator, which is why the relation to banks is irrelevant. I can buy $1 worth of Bitcoin, declare it ErikCoin, acceptable only in my stores at a 1/1,000,000 denomination, and I instantly "minted" $1,000,000 in cryptocurrency, using only the Bitcoin blockchain. Bitcoin doesn't let people be banks, it let's people be the mint.

How is that different from virtual currency in video games?

Re: A hacker stole $31M of Ether – how it happened, and what it means for Ethereum

#385

Post by erikpukinskis »

jacquesm wrote: post #201
bsaul wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

so the scope of smart contract in your definition can only cover areas not already governed by traditional regulatory system / laws. Imho that doesn't cover a lot. or laws will have to be adapted to grant values to them. But then it isn't much different from today's contracts.

> so the scope of smart contract in your definition can only cover areas not already governed by traditional regulatory system / laws. Correct, if you don't need a smart contract using one won't give you any advantages. > Imho that doesn't cover a lot. We're going to have to disagree on that. > or laws will have to be adapted to grant values to them. Absent a global government I don't see how that could be done. > Bu…

> > or laws will have to be adapted to grant values to them.

> Absent a global government I don't see how that could be done.

What's so hard about the judge forcing you to form a new smart contract?

I have zero difficulty imagining a situation where a judge brings me in and says "Now unlock your laptop and sign this Ethereum contract that undoes the previous one".

Re: A hacker stole $31M of Ether – how it happened, and what it means for Ethereum

#386

Post by Dagger2 »

Y7ZCQtNo39 wrote: post #340
bloominglotus wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In block chain, 51% of the network can decide to modify the ledger to do things that aren't true. That's all it takes to completely change how much money is in my account in a "distributed" bank. I don't own it, and it's certainly not robust against demagogues. Demagogues are by definition political opportunists who play on populism to advance their politics. If democratic elections have a vulnerability to them, so c…

So if a majority of participants (50% + 1 of the network) wanted to say, "rob" the wealthy top 1% of wallets and redistribute wealth by rewriting the history of the blockchain, nothing could stop them?

You can't just transfer money however you like, even if you had complete control of the blockchain. Transactions still need to be signed by the private key of the wallet involved. You could put a transaction with an invalid signature into the blockchain, but then the chain would be rejected by clients because of the invalid transaction.

Re: A hacker stole $31M of Ether – how it happened, and what it means for Ethereum

#388

Post by didibus »

Definitely it seems defensive measures should be built into the programming toolchain of Ethereum. Like it probably shouldn't allow eval at all.

That said, any form of eval should also be a red flag for security. It seems like in this case cost won over security. And that is fundamentally the biggest threat to security.

Re: A hacker stole $31M of Ether – how it happened, and what it means for Ethereum

#389

Post by loceng »

justadeveloper2 wrote: post #310
loceng wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we create a UBI then people will have the time to be better educated, to be healthier, to raise healthier, happier, and more productive families. We're almost there, automation will strongly facilitate this. Because a new technology seems exciting - and gains adoption because early adoption means potential for an individual to turn $1000s of into $1,000,000s with very little individual effort of working towards ma…

If we get a UBI, I'm quitting my developer job and just going to coast the rest of my life. I don't care how many corners I have to cut, lol. Gonna milk that cow as hard as I can. My dad used to ask to be laid off jobs (blue collar) so he could collect unemployment for a few months. He did that off and on for years.

Hopefully you're a good person or the environment around you will help you grow in positive ways. Would you have a family? And why are you unhappy at your developer job? Is it more stress than you'd like? It seems like your dad had a strong influence on you.

Re: A hacker stole $31M of Ether – how it happened, and what it means for Ethereum

#390

Post by njarboe »

int_19h wrote: post #78
njarboe wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One could envision that the transportation of one-time pads as the only objects worth shipping between inhabited solar systems. Value per gram could be enormous.

"Our main cargo is a one-time cryptographic pad. The source is Commercial Security at Sjandra Kei; the destination is the certificants' High colony. It was the usual arrangement: We're carrying a one-third xor of the pad. Independent shippers are carrying the others. At the destination, the three parts would be xor'd together. The result could supply a dozen worlds' crypto needs on the Net ..." - Vernor Vinge, "A Fir…

Thanks for the ref. That's where I got it from. Couldn't remember if it was from "A Fire upon the Deep" or from an Ian Banks Culture series book.
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