As California’s labor shortage grows, farmers replace workers with robots • Hacker News Board

Re: As California’s labor shortage grows, farmers replace workers with robots

#41

Post by jff » Fri, Jul 21, 2017, 6:41 PM UTC

Clubber wrote: post #28

JustAnotherPat wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Picking fruit and vegetables has always been peasant and serf work. The market has never once said, 'you should be paid more,' because there always is an underclass and even if you paid triple what you pay now it'd be the same class of people working the job. The problem is every American thinks he's too good to be at the bottom of the barrel these days.

If it's a comparison between getting crap pay at McDonalds and getting crap pay in the hot sun all day, then there is no comparison.

I've never worked at a McDonalds, but I've done my time out in the hot sun and honestly when I look at these poor bastards standing in front of a pot of boiling grease all day I wonder if I wouldn't go back to the farm.

Unless the work was picking onions or strawberries or some other crop which involves spending all day in a terrible bent-over posture. If the pay was the same, though, I'd rather spend the day harvesting apples than spend it making burgers for assholes.

Re: As California’s labor shortage grows, farmers replace workers with robots

#42

Post by GirlsCanCode » Fri, Jul 21, 2017, 6:42 PM UTC

csdrane wrote: post #9

Or they could, you know, offer higher wages.

They mention raising wages and paying benefits several times in the article. @Dang--can you remove this user who doesn't read the articles and then makes inflammatory misinformed comments.

Re: As California’s labor shortage grows, farmers replace workers with robots

#43

Post by seanmcdirmid » Fri, Jul 21, 2017, 6:44 PM UTC

frabbit wrote: post #37

That’s because immigrant farmworkers in California’s agricultural heartlands are getting older and not being replaced. As others have mentioned it's all to do with the wages that the fruit growers are willing to pay, and Driscoll's (mentioned in the article) have been at the center of controversy about their wages for some time for their practices in Mexico and elsewhere: https://boycott-driscolls.org/ The Union of I…

> Robots for labor are coming, and when they do it is time to take agriculturally productive land away from the profiteers. They serve no rational function in the economy and are merely monopolizing a resource.

This is one of the big questions we'll have to ask in the next 20 or so years, and it just isn't farms. We are going to have to deal with plenty of industries that will merely consume resources and produce without providing any other benefits to society.

Re: As California’s labor shortage grows, farmers replace workers with robots

#44

Post by bcoates » Fri, Jul 21, 2017, 6:51 PM UTC

mcone wrote: post #30

avs733 wrote: post #10

They could also, which is notably mentioned no where in the article, pay more? In a market driven economy...which companies want...employees have market power as well when their is a shortage.

They could pay more. But since what we're really talking about here is the market, the real question is who would pick up the added costs. Are consumers willing to pay the "real cost" of food grown by employees who are paid a fair wage?

Ag workers are not a huge cost driver to the retail price of food, so it'll be fine.

Re: As California’s labor shortage grows, farmers replace workers with robots

#45

Post by minikites » Fri, Jul 21, 2017, 6:54 PM UTC

ams6110 wrote: post #19

Farms have been replacing people with technology for at least 200 years.

200? Try 6000: http://www.historyworld.net/wrldhis/plaintexthistories.asp?h...

>From about 4000 BC oxen are harnessed and put to work. They drag sledges and, somewhat later, ploughs and wheeled wagons (an almost simultaneous innovation in the Middle East and in Europe). The plough immeasurably increases the crop of wheat or rice. The wagon enables it to be brought home from more distant fields.

Re: As California’s labor shortage grows, farmers replace workers with robots

#46

Post by bcoates » Fri, Jul 21, 2017, 6:55 PM UTC

aphextron wrote: post #15

csdrane wrote: post #9

Or they could, you know, offer higher wages.

It's not that simple with farming, unfortunately. Worker pay is necessarily based on individual productivity, which can only increase so much [0]. Margins are razor thin for producers to begin with. The vast majority of profits are captured by the manufacturing and distribution. This is why the IRS taxes farm workers and farm employers differently from any other kind of commercial activity. http://nfwm.org/education-…

Why should farm work be immune to cost disease when nothing else is?

Re: As California’s labor shortage grows, farmers replace workers with robots

#47

Post by FullMtlAlcoholc » Fri, Jul 21, 2017, 6:55 PM UTC

avs733 wrote: post #10

They could also, which is notably mentioned no where in the article, pay more? In a market driven economy...which companies want...employees have market power as well when their is a shortage.

Although I am in agreement with you, a rise in the cost of wages for this sector hastens more automation

Re: As California’s labor shortage grows, farmers replace workers with robots

#48

Post by coredog64 » Fri, Jul 21, 2017, 6:57 PM UTC

sol_remmy wrote: post #35

mcone wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They could pay more. But since what we're really talking about here is the market, the real question is who would pick up the added costs. Are consumers willing to pay the "real cost" of food grown by employees who are paid a fair wage?

It's already been shown in Seattle that raising minimum wage does not raise prices. Therefore paying these workers more should not raise prices. It might make them rise to middle class though :)

According to what I've read [0], the increase has led to more leisure time (and less money). I would expect the same in agriculture.

[0] https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-06-26/seattle-s...

Re: As California’s labor shortage grows, farmers replace workers with robots

#49

Post by coredog64 » Fri, Jul 21, 2017, 7:00 PM UTC

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #20

avs733 wrote: post #10

They could also, which is notably mentioned no where in the article, pay more? In a market driven economy...which companies want...employees have market power as well when their is a shortage.

Or just import more from Mexico and have Californians concentrate on the higher value jobs.

This would be the best thing. US farm subsidies mean that Mexican farmers can't compete with US farms. If we stopped stupidly subsidizing farming[0], the Mexican economy would be able to make use of more of their citizens. They'd get the tax revenue, and maybe there'd even be more incentive to clean up corruption.

[0] Food security might be worth some subsidization, but not the level that the US currently has.

Re: As California’s labor shortage grows, farmers replace workers with robots

#50

Post by thaumasiotes » Fri, Jul 21, 2017, 7:00 PM UTC

bcoates wrote: post #46

aphextron wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that simple with farming, unfortunately. Worker pay is necessarily based on individual productivity, which can only increase so much [0]. Margins are razor thin for producers to begin with. The vast majority of profits are captured by the manufacturing and distribution. This is why the IRS taxes farm workers and farm employers differently from any other kind of commercial activity. http://nfwm.org/education-…

Why should farm work be immune to cost disease when nothing else is?

Alternatively, why should you believe cost disease applies to other work when it doesn't apply to farm work?