The Decline of Investment in San Francisco Startups • Hacker News Board

Re: The Decline of Investment in San Francisco Startups

#181

Post by orblivion » Fri, Jul 21, 2017, 2:53 PM UTC

vidoc wrote: post #22

aphextron wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's almost comical how overcrowded BART has gotten at rush hour. Embarcadero and Powell stations become standing room only. I live deep in the east bay, and the new apartment building going up across the street has 1 bedroom layouts starting at $2800. Something has to give, or people will simply give up.

> Riding BART into and out of SF as a commute is ridiculous at a new level nowadays. Especially given the shocking number of uneducated people who insist on keeping their backpacks on their shoulders despite the train being packed. Totally pisses me off!

Pisses me off that I have to take off my bag. I have to keep my feet together to protect it, which doesn't help my balancing leverage.

Re: The Decline of Investment in San Francisco Startups

#182

Post by jorts » Fri, Jul 21, 2017, 2:55 PM UTC

amyjess wrote: post #149

golemotron wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SF culture has descended into purity spirals [1]. The last time I was there I was shocked by the amount of signaling that was happening. [1] - http://www.redgulls.com/2016/08/17/the-purity-spiral/

This is one of the reasons I'm considering a move to SoCal, but I will never, ever consider moving to NorCal. One thing I've heard is that SoCal is full of superficial, shallow, materialistic people, and that people in NorCal are expected to have a cause. It doesn't have to be a left-wing cause, either; look at Curtis Yarvin, for example. I'm somewhat SJW myself, but really I'm a consumerist at heart. I just want to…

Your perspective on residents of SoCal is a huge generalization of literally millions of people. Of course there is some of that and it varies by area, but you can definitely find large cities in SoCal where that is definitely not the norm.

Equally, NorCal is not full of militant vegans or Bernie Bros. I recommend you spend some time in these areas before forming such a negative perspective on their societies.

Re: The Decline of Investment in San Francisco Startups

#183

Post by CalChris » Fri, Jul 21, 2017, 3:05 PM UTC

kevinburke wrote: post #168

e40 wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Four large apartment buildings in the East Bay have been burned by arsonists (likely the same one or group) in the last year. One in Uptown a few weeks ago. One, in Emmeryville was burned down twice . I agree, we need to build more housing. It seems it's not quite that simple, though.

As an example of how Bay Area housing politics are silly.. there is a document that local governments use that purports to show that building more housing creates demand for even more housing, and use it to justify not building things. By that logic, these arsons will help reduce rents in Oakland... it makes no sense.

By that logic, these arsons will help reduce rents in Oakland... it makes no sense.

No. That is a fallacy on your part, denying the antecedent.

Re: The Decline of Investment in San Francisco Startups

#184

Post by greedo » Fri, Jul 21, 2017, 3:09 PM UTC

nck4222 wrote: post #136

readhn wrote: post #66

It's a self correcting cycle. Money pours in - salaries and living expenses go up - real estate goes up. Money flows out - everything shrinks. What goes up must come down. Everything is cyclical. SF economy is no exception.

Uhh, ever hear about the depression, dot com bubble, great recession/housing market crash? You're basically advocating "Let's do nothing, the market always corrects itself." Which is true to an extent, but in the extreme it also ruins lives, the country, and itself left unchecked during this process. This is why a completely unregulated market is a horrible idea. Government needs to step in at certain times. This mig…

Since when is the market unregulated?

Re: The Decline of Investment in San Francisco Startups

#185

Post by timothycrosley » Fri, Jul 21, 2017, 3:10 PM UTC

sulam wrote: post #104

timothycrosley wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on what viewpoint your coming from, but from that of a software developer there are many alternatives that have been much better than San Francisco for years, especially Seattle https://www.codementor.io/blog/best-cities-software-engineer... , which is also set up for future success as it keeps building http://www.spur.org/news/2017-06-15/keep-building-oakland . Honestly, I think what we are seeing, is a shif…

There simply aren't enough engineers in Seattle, especially what I will call "startup" engineers. You're competing against Amazon, Google, and Microsoft (Facebook to a lesser degree) and the engineers in Seattle tend to prefer these established companies over startups. A large chunk of the Bay Area engineering community won't work at Amazon (Facebook and Google are another story) and came there to do startups. It's a…

What your describing is not a lack of engineers, it's a low uneployment rate. There are enough engineers for 100s of new startups. The only thing that excarbates more than San Francisco, is that there is much less a culture of jumping ship here, which is good for companies long term. Also, it's much easier to convince engineers to move to Seattle than San Francisco, which is probably why we are growing at over 3x the rate.

Re: The Decline of Investment in San Francisco Startups

#186

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Jul 21, 2017, 3:10 PM UTC

sulam wrote: post #104

timothycrosley wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on what viewpoint your coming from, but from that of a software developer there are many alternatives that have been much better than San Francisco for years, especially Seattle https://www.codementor.io/blog/best-cities-software-engineer... , which is also set up for future success as it keeps building http://www.spur.org/news/2017-06-15/keep-building-oakland . Honestly, I think what we are seeing, is a shif…

There simply aren't enough engineers in Seattle, especially what I will call "startup" engineers. You're competing against Amazon, Google, and Microsoft (Facebook to a lesser degree) and the engineers in Seattle tend to prefer these established companies over startups. A large chunk of the Bay Area engineering community won't work at Amazon (Facebook and Google are another story) and came there to do startups. It's a…

[deleted]

Re: The Decline of Investment in San Francisco Startups

#187

Post by mercutio2 » Fri, Jul 21, 2017, 3:11 PM UTC

timothycrosley wrote: post #63

Houshalter wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Move where exactly? So many people want to live there for a reason. If moving to another city saves you $1k a month on rent, but you lose $1.5k in income, it doesn't make any economic sense.

Seattle. Lose ~2-5 thousand a year in income on average as a Software engineer, save 1-2 thousand a month on rent, and no income tax: https://www.codementor.io/blog/best-cities-software-engineer...

People keep using Glassdoor numbers and think they’re representative.

Representative of low performers, maybe, but even then I’m not convinced. The idea that a high performer only gives up $5k total comp going to Amazon or Microsoft in Seattle is... well, feel free to believe that. You’re making a ton of money any which way relative to the general population.

But most people I know in the Bay Area don’t report that they’re leaving net income on the table staying here. Maybe all those software engineers are just bad at accounting, seems to be everyone’s analysis.

Re: The Decline of Investment in San Francisco Startups

#188

Post by johan_larson » Fri, Jul 21, 2017, 3:13 PM UTC

fatbird wrote: post #46

aphextron wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's almost comical how overcrowded BART has gotten at rush hour. Embarcadero and Powell stations become standing room only. I live deep in the east bay, and the new apartment building going up across the street has 1 bedroom layouts starting at $2800. Something has to give, or people will simply give up.

People should give up. People should leave the area. They should move where they can find a job and a cost of living that's reasonable. The fact that people don't give up is why landlords can afford to charge $2,800/month for a 1 bedroom. You can't rent at $2,800/month if no one will sign the lease.

Maybe it's time for some soft vigilante action. Start mailing people brochures about how Denver, Seattle, Portland and Austin are really really nice places. And enclose a bullet.

Re: The Decline of Investment in San Francisco Startups

#189

Post by timothycrosley » Fri, Jul 21, 2017, 3:15 PM UTC

nojvek wrote: post #177

timothycrosley wrote: post #64

For people looking for an escape from San Francisco: come join us in Seattle! https://www.codementor.io/blog/best-cities-software-engineer... it's great here. And we have been building several times the housing to keep up with demand: http://www.spur.org/news/2017-06-15/keep-building-oakland .

Seattle housing market is still crazy. Not a lot for sale. Plus it rains for 6 months and miserable. If you like that then it's great. I love it in Seattle. You don't get as many startups here though. It's just the big companies doing business as usual.

Not as many as San Francisco, but there's a ton of startups here and the city has a solid startup culture: https://www.geekwire.com/startup-list/. Some notible ones include Zillow, Redfin, Rover, and OfferUp. I agree houses are getting to be too expensive for most, but for those in the rental market things are increasing, but the Outlook looks good as soon many units are getting built.

Re: The Decline of Investment in San Francisco Startups

#190

Post by CameronBanga » Fri, Jul 21, 2017, 3:16 PM UTC

Sleeep wrote: post #167

chrissnell wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone living in the Midwest and telecommuting to SFBA, that's almost unbelievable to me. I pay less than that for my brand new and quite nice 5/4 house on almost half an acre of land. With all of the remote work available, why would you stay here? I manage a team with two remote-friendly job openings currently. You could work for me and go live in Telluride, CO for less than that East Bay 1br and still have mone…

What's a 5/4 house? The Midwest is stereotypical for "affordable living" but I live in New England and it's fairly affordable here too in comparison. I own a three bedroom in town, with 20% down my P+I is $750 a month and PITI is $1275 a month. If I financed the whole thing the PITI would be $1462 a month. I think my housing cost is about average for the US.

I think here, it means 5 bedroom 4 bath.