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Iron Yard code school to close all campuses

blog.theironyard.com

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Re: Iron Yard code school to close all campuses

#71

Post by detroit12345 »

dang wrote: post #69
detroit1234 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I moved from Ann Arbor to Detroit because of a wonderful group of musicians that I get to perform and spend time with. From a Detroiter to one who clearly has never been here, kindly go fuck yourself. Detroit has problems, but it's been four years since the bankruptcy and we're actually building new offices downtown because the existing buildings are only 5% vacant. There's progress being made every day, but that wou…

> go fuck yourself. A spirited defense of Detroit is certainly welcome, but we ban accounts that resort to personal attack. Would you please not post like this here?

I literally do not care. I made a throwaway because some asshole who has spent the better part of a decade not living in Detroit thinks they have any idea what's happening in Detroit. Hackernews is a Paul Graham circle jerk and I actually do not care that you're going to ban me.

Once again: go /fuck/ yourself.

Re: Iron Yard code school to close all campuses

#72

Post by detroit12345 »

dang wrote: post #69
detroit1234 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I moved from Ann Arbor to Detroit because of a wonderful group of musicians that I get to perform and spend time with. From a Detroiter to one who clearly has never been here, kindly go fuck yourself. Detroit has problems, but it's been four years since the bankruptcy and we're actually building new offices downtown because the existing buildings are only 5% vacant. There's progress being made every day, but that wou…

> go fuck yourself. A spirited defense of Detroit is certainly welcome, but we ban accounts that resort to personal attack. Would you please not post like this here?

Nice job deleting my other comments too, fuckwit.

Re: Iron Yard code school to close all campuses

#73

Post by detroit12345 »

microcolonel wrote: post #58
detroit1234 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I moved from Ann Arbor to Detroit because of a wonderful group of musicians that I get to perform and spend time with. From a Detroiter to one who clearly has never been here, kindly go fuck yourself. Detroit has problems, but it's been four years since the bankruptcy and we're actually building new offices downtown because the existing buildings are only 5% vacant. There's progress being made every day, but that wou…

> From a Detroiter to one who clearly has never been here, kindly go fuck yourself. I have been to Detroit. It was pretty low energy, and that was some years ago (six?). Since then the crime has risen and the population and economic activity have declined. The mere fact that some buildings are being built in some places does not indicate that things are getting much better. I understand the Michigander pride, but I d…

Piss off. If you haven't been here for six years, what the fuck could you possibly know? Detroit doesn't want you, asshole.

Re: Iron Yard code school to close all campuses

#74

Post by taneq »

keyle wrote: post #4

Shouldn't place like these be growing instead of closing down? What did they get wrong? The demand for qualified developers isn't slowing afaik.

> The demand for qualified developers isn't slowing afaik.

Does anyone in industry really count a 6-month course, no matter how intensive, as 'qualified'? It's hard enough breaking into your first job after a 3-4 year degree, most places still want more experience for their 'graduate' positions. I can't imagine it'd be easier for someone changing tracks mid-career with only a few months' coding experience.

Re: Iron Yard code school to close all campuses

#75

Post by [deleted] »

valuearb wrote: post #42
ams6110 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not the administrative salaries so much as the bloat. Look at the org chart of any major state school 30 years ago compared to today. Coach salaries tend to be eye-catching but they are generally entirely funded by the athletic department and its supporters, not tuition or state funds.

Athletic department revenues are entirely property of the school, and partly funded by mandatory student fees. The NCAA could cap coaches salaries at $250,000 and the line of qualified candidates to become a NCAA coach would still be out the door for every school. Instead they allow coaches and athletic directors to coordinate a conspiracy where they and their employees get to skim all of the profits of the program f…

[deleted]

Re: Iron Yard code school to close all campuses

#76

Post by brooklyn_ashey »

elehack wrote: post #54
valuearb wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look at total cost of attendance. Schools could set tuition to zero, but require students to pay $40,000 a year for "room, board and books" and it wouldn't actually make tuition cheap.

Tuition + fees (possibly + books, but that is highly variable from term to term and generally substantially less than tuition) is the correct way to evaluate the cost of higher education. Room & board is generally optional at state schools (there are a few exceptions). My institution's in-state tuition + fees are about $9K/year. The TX state university I taught at for two years was similar.

But see, then there is the key point: college grads just aren't getting work. The Bachelor's degree isn't even as useful as the HS diploma used to be in the 1970s. The big difference now is the debt one is saddled with after all three degrees up to the PHD and then a tacked on bootcamp so you can be over-skilled to do underpaid, stupid work at a food delivery uber-for-kittens app in a youth-andro-monoculture setting. (but you will only get this precious job if you are really young, a dude, white, and love craft beer, complicated facial hair, and being really really positive about everything and using the word passionate as much as humanly possible in every sentence.)

Re: Iron Yard code school to close all campuses

#77

Post by prh8 »

munin wrote: post #38
ams6110 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not the administrative salaries so much as the bloat. Look at the org chart of any major state school 30 years ago compared to today. Coach salaries tend to be eye-catching but they are generally entirely funded by the athletic department and its supporters, not tuition or state funds.

> Coach salaries tend to be eye-catching but they are generally entirely funded by the athletic department and its supporters, not tuition or state funds. This is only true at a small number of schools. Most subsidize the athletics department through fees they levy on students in addition to the normal tuition.

This is correct, in any given year there are less than 10 schools whose athletic departments are profitable. However, this simple fact ignores the positive economic impact that athletic programs can have on a university that aren't purely P&L in the department.

Re: Iron Yard code school to close all campuses

#79

Post by brooklyn_ashey »

bphogan wrote: post #43
hkmurakami wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Question: if the pay was such that you weren't taking a pay cut, would that have made you stay longer? What would the conditions have to be like for someone who's a senior engineer to even consider making "a career change" into teaching swe for the next 10 years of their career, rather than a 2 year moonlighting stint? (Wondering what the setup had to be too make this sustainable)

I don't know about the original poster, but I'd have stayed teaching full time if I could have afforded it. But I was literally making half of what my students were making after a couple of years in industry. Another thing to think about is this: Just cos you know SWE really well doesn't mean you have the ability to teach it to others. Not everyone "gets" things quickly, or will understand your explanations on the fi…

It is too bad that these bootcamps can't find a way to invest real money in excellent teachers. A few of these teachers are great. The teachers are the core of the business, just like they are in a university. We all know what has happened to salaries there. I think if bootcamps and colleges keep paying teachers like they are worth less than one of the jillion dollar Vitra sofas these schools are furnished with, they deserve to fail hard. (nice sofas though) Perhaps this is one of the key areas of failure in the model? Just a suggestion. Most of these teachers really stink. These bootcamps value youth or a let's call it a"certain look" over teaching experience and teaching innovation and creative teaching techniques. They also hire a lot of sadly unqualified grads of their programs who are confused when current students submit apps that are slightly more complicated than what they are used to seeing. They have no idea how to reach out to a diverse array (no pun intended) of students, because they are usually the "tell me what to do - I just follow orders" type of student/employee themselves who are all too keen to buy into the positivity consensus so enthusiastically promoted by these bootcamps. I hope you can teach where you are appreciated one day.

Re: Iron Yard code school to close all campuses

#80

Post by chao- »

rmason wrote: post #13

Knew two people who worked at their Detroit campus. If I'm remembering correctly they had more jobs lined up than students. Now Detroit isn't even listed on their website, yet it only opened in 2015. This filled a real need in Detroit and it saddens me.

>This filled a real need in Detroit and it saddens me.

The same is true for Houston. I'm about to hire an Iron Yard graduate for a junior dev position, and if I had the budget to more people, one of the other top candidates was also an Iron Yard grad.

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